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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To disagree with the £10 minimum wage policy ?

340 replies

Spice22 · 05/05/2017 15:57

This is a genuine question - I've been reading some of the policies and I can't quite decide how I feel about this.

I have 2 key problems ;

  1. Won't prices for everything just go up anyway, meaning there's no real change and people will still need tax credits?
  1. My biggest concern if I'm honest. Will this not devalue professions? Currently, a cleaner may earn £7 and a programmer , for example, may earn £13 an hour. If the minimum wage rises to £10, there will be a £3 differential between someone who has gained qualifications and someone who is in a MW job. I really don't see many companies increasing the wage of the professional when they are faced with a huge bill to increase the wage of the MW worker. So why would anyone go to uni? Especially when they can work overtime and easily outearn the ones who did?

AIBU and why?

OP posts:
lougle · 05/05/2017 22:01

"As an HCA many of my colleagues want to do their nurse training because HCAs get a lot of the not so nice jobs. I know how hard nurses work but it's the HCAs who do the majority of the changing pads, washes, turns, the work that isn't always pleasant and is quite back breaking."

As I say, my base rate is £11.4854 per hour. I work in ICU. I work in ICU. I've just finished a Masters level specialist qualification. I was given study days for the course attendance, but had to get my competencies signed off during my normal working hours and I had to compete the assignments in my own time.

I do all my own washes for my patients, all my own turns, etc. We have one care assistant for the entire unit on some shifts, but they do lots of other jobs and for the most part nurses rely on other nurses to assist with turns (most of our patients are immobile and require two or three people to turn them for safety).

For my £11.49 per hour I'm expected to safely manage a patient's ventilation, making sure they have adequate oxygen levels, their lungs aren't over-expanding, they're getting enough airflow and they are offloading enough carbon dioxide; control their blood pressure with powerful drugs that have a very short duration of action (less than 5 minutes); monitor their heart rate and rhythm; monitor their urine output to ensure their kidneys are perfused; monitor their fluid balance, taking action where necessary; check that any enteral feed that is being given is being absorbed and that the patient isn't suffering from gastric stasis; ensure the patient doesn't develop pressure damage; the list goes on.....

TalkinPeece · 05/05/2017 22:04

I will not get out of bed for less than £50 an hour
I took shit loads of exams till I was 29 to get there
I can see scenarios that others cannot
I am worth my difference

if you think you can do my job without the years of exams, your choice
Ill clean up sorting your mess

TheFirstMrsDV · 05/05/2017 22:07

if you think you can do my job without the years of exams, your choice
Who has said they can?
How is someone getting £10 an hour going to impact on your life/job/self worth?
An extra two or three quid an hour will mean a lot to them but won't bring them anywhere near your pay grade.

I don't really understand your post.

Teabagtits · 05/05/2017 22:07

It shouldn't be a race to the bottom. Does nobody see what has been done to us here? We're so afraid that those at the bottom get a better deal that we worry we're going to lose out. As long as someone is worse off then it's ok, they'll get picked on first. People don't seem to give a shit about those currently worse off than them as long as it doesn't affect them now... are people scared that if wages are equalised they'll be next to be treated badly by politicians and capitalist ideology? Rather than fighting to improve wages and standards for everyone it's easier to pretend your lot is fine as long as those you consider lower than yourself are kept in their place and worse off. This makes me sad.

Headofthehive55 · 05/05/2017 22:08

But mrsdv
As pointed out we may be in a position to earn less than minimum wage, for a supposedly more responsible job.
Why is that fair?
It's demoralising. And I would have to pay for my own continual training too which further reduces my effective salary.
we have more costs and that reduces our salary.
I work for money.

TheFirstMrsDV · 05/05/2017 22:14

I still dont get it head.
The position you are in is wrong. You should be getting more money.
I should be getting more money. I am on a very low wage but above NMW.
Other people getting an extra few quid an hour doesn't make the fact I am underpaid easier or harder for me.
The sort of work I do has always been undervalued because it is not considered a profession.
I can't see that changing and it bloody annoys me but in order to do what I love I have to deal with it.
Someone else getting a fair wage doesn't make my wages less fair IYSWIM.

Feckitall · 05/05/2017 22:14

The introduction of the national living wage meant a 2.5k pay cut for me..Angry my company just restructured the pay scale..

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 05/05/2017 22:18

My part time hours at work have gone down

They are paying me an extra 30p an hour

Yay me Smile

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 05/05/2017 22:19

I am overall £13 + worse off a week

twelly · 05/05/2017 22:21

By increasing the minimum wage the difference between benefits and work is widened which should encourage people off benefits

Teabagtits · 05/05/2017 22:22

But how many employers, ceos and shareholders are taking cuts in their incomes/dividends? Why is anger being pointed at low paid workers instead of those still making massive profits?

HelenaDove · 05/05/2017 22:22

Roomster im always seeing the assumption that low pay jobs are stressful. Believe me they are not

My ex used to work for a car delivery service for minimum wage. His boss was constantly on the phone to him while he was out telling him to hurry up. Shouting and moaning at him and pressurizing him. He ended up with a speeding ticket.

jamdonut have you ever worked in retail? At Christmas for instance.

This is also stressful. The insinuation that minimum wage jobs arent stressful is untrue and insulting.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 05/05/2017 22:24

Really helena

People have been saying stuff like that Shock

Sallystyle · 05/05/2017 22:25

lougle you should be getting a hell of a lot more money for what you do.

I have done a few shifts in ICU/HDU and there isn't much work a HCA can do in that area as you obviously know. I know I would be very nervous about the idea of washing a patient who is on so many machines and who is very unwell. I didn't go back there after a few shifts as there wasn't any patient care I could get involved in and rightly so. I loved watching the nurses at work but I am not sure I cope with that level of responsibility which an ICU nurse has.

I think all nurses should be paid a hell of a lot more than what they are. It's disgusting that they aren't.

HelenaDove · 05/05/2017 22:28

Sorry i meant Im seeing insinuations here that lower pay jobs ARENT stressful. typo.

HelenaDove · 05/05/2017 22:30

Believe me they are stressful.

Valentine2 · 05/05/2017 22:33

YABU. I don't think I would ever compare my pay to anyone in particular. It's called living wage for a reason.

Sallystyle · 05/05/2017 22:34

BTW I hope my first post didn't sound like I was trying to say HCAs had it harder. It would be a ludicrous thing to say because it is simply untrue due to all the responsibility you have. I am sorry if it came across that way at all.

My point was that many of us would still want to be nurses even if HCAs were earning £10 an hour because the idea of having more responsibility and autonomy is a good one. I would rather be doing the meds, assessments, personal care and everything a nurse does because for many of us it seems a lot more fulfilling and interesting.

Maybe one day soon :)

Headofthehive55 · 05/05/2017 22:36

mrsdv
You don't get more money, that's the point. The headline rate might look slightly better, see lougles £11.49 which is obviously better than £10.
However, nurses have to pay our professional fees, out of our own money and undertake further learning, often paid from our taxed income. This reduces that £11.49.
Why should I feel motivated by doing something for less than minimum wage?

scaryclown · 05/05/2017 22:37

Fuck there's some odd thinking here. I can't believe the country is doing so badly, and has been brainwashed so well that people are treating a £10 per hour wage as if everyone will be dancing around in firs and dropping in lah di dah jewels at the expense of the professions.

Fucking mental.

£10 P.h is 10p more than the rate for an agency phone answerer in 1997...FUCKING 20 YEARS AGO...

thats like someone in the 70s taking home a wage from the 1950s when Mrs beeton wrote her 1d for a pound of butter stuff..

Jesus..

Doesn't anybody realise how poor we are as a nation now?? Nobody??.

We used to be able to buy a house..As in a two or three bedroom house with ONE skilled ..Labourers wage.. now people with masters and ten years experience can't afford a fucking FLAT.

Don't you get it???

RhodaBorrocks · 05/05/2017 22:38

I'd love this if it forced employers to raise the wages of existing staff. I only get £10.50 an hour and I have a masters FFS! I stay because I love my job and it works for me until DS is out of primary and I can resume commuting to the city, but even my manager admits I'm not paid what I'm worth right now, but has no power to change it, because NHS.

Unfortunately I think pp are correct that a lot of places would just use more zero hours contracts or lay people off. Angry

Realistically though it could be a very good thing - if Brexit does result in a lot of the people who provide our cheap workforce having to go home then we will need to increase wages to recruit Brits, because whilst the rhetoric goes "They're taking our jobs!" The reality is they're taking the jobs that Brits think are too low paid or beneath them. If they were paid more then benefits wouldn't have the attraction and the goal to get more people into work would be more tangible. Imo sanctions, workfare and zero hours are not the ways to attract people into work. Pay people more realistically and the welfare spend may reduce (not for pensions and disability, but certainly for the general unemployed).

But according to DF I'm a 'commie' for thinking this way. Hmm

HelenaDove · 05/05/2017 22:39

Rufus Quite a few ppl on this thread have said they might as well get a less stressful minimum wage job.

You see the same attitudes re. automation. There wasnt much objection when this was only affecting working class jobs (self serve tills have been at supermarkets for years) but now middle class jobs are under threat it ends up all over the news.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 05/05/2017 22:40

Good lord that dreadful helena

Lots of well paid and incredibly stupid people on the thread then by the sounds of it

HelenaDove · 05/05/2017 22:42

Saw an advert on Peacocks shop window advertising for an apprenticeship worker today.

scaryclown · 05/05/2017 22:44

Businesses NEED AN EXCUSE to 'have' to pay appropriate wages, because shareholder are cunts.

If we give them an excuse they can hand-wring and say to shareholders that they have to..Etc...

We are ALREADY seeing min wage people only buying basic commodity food, and so making it hard for businesses to make money as a result, and because workers don't anymore negotiate, business screws that when it doesn't have to...

It's like if you know you can would pay £10 for a ready meal, you would..But if you get to the checkout and say 'I'll give you a quid" and they don't know how to say no..You would pay £1.

That's where we are with labour market. No power is there to resist the unreasonable demand...And thats what good min wage legislation can do..

Also we need a better labour market for matching skills to jobs as underemployment at Mon wage is the biggest inefficiency in our economy,behind our public school dominated management..

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