To disagree with the £10 minimum wage policy ?

[Spice22]

This is a genuine question - I've been reading some of the policies and I can't quite decide how I feel about this.

I have 2 key problems ;

1. Won't prices for everything just go up anyway, meaning there's no real change and people will still need tax credits?

1. My biggest concern if I'm honest. Will this not devalue professions? Currently, a cleaner may earn £7 and a programmer , for example, may earn £13 an hour. If the minimum wage rises to £10, there will be a £3 differential between someone who has gained qualifications and someone who is in a MW job. I really don't see many companies increasing the wage of the professional when they are faced with a huge bill to increase the wage of the MW worker. So why would anyone go to uni? Especially when they can work overtime and easily outearn the ones who did?

AIBU and why?

I certainly have never found retail work anywhere near as stressful as my professional job.

I think the point is that some low paid jobs can be very stressful, some can be stressful at times

In the same way that some well paid jobs can be stressful...but some are not at times

Its the blanket insulting 'well i will just get a minimum wage job cos they are a fucking doddle' that pisses people off

Just double checked with DH all this talk of people giving up well paid jobs 'cos whats the point if minimum wage is £10' has made me slightly panicked!!

Everything is fine though...he looked at me as if i had grown two heads so I doubt its happening

And as i have said i am not sure whether a blanket raise is a good idea...

I find 'low stress' jobs the most stressful of all, as my work mode is to mentally work very quickly and have a high demand on me, so low stress jobs have me pacing and chewing my mouth like a polar bear at a zoo..

Fair enough Helena, I still never said all low paid jobs weren't stressful.

There is certainly a lot wrong with the wage structure in many organisations, at times I feel grateful for working in the NHS as at least there is a very clear structure for each type of role (doesn't mean it is always fair but you know where you stand before you apply).

I still believe no one should earn a wage they cannot live off, then again that is all relative, I know many people that live relatively well, with children, both working full time on minimum wage due to tax credits and various other things. How is there a right answer to the level of pay that is 'minimum'. I think many people have given very good reasons why it is or isn't feasible.

In small businesses such as a pre-school, the lowest paid workers are on minimum wage, there is little responsibility to the role and everything they are required to do is given to them and monitored closely, the higher level staff have a much bigger responsibility and deserve to be paid more, very few are on £10 an hour so when minimum wage increases, their wages must increase also. Is there a solution to that other than putting fees up? Possibly not.

Rufus - has anyone said low paid jobs are a doddle though? And who would give up a well paid job for £10 ph? I think things are being twisted a lot on this thread.

If I was paid £11 per hour as a preschool manager but could actually work as an unqualified practitioner for £10 ph, no responsibility, no taking work home, no Ofsted issues etc etc , would I actually think it is worth all the extra hassle? Absolutely not. If I was paid £30 ph as an accountant or something would I give up for a lower stress minimum wage job? Of course not.

Its the blanket insulting 'well i will just get a minimum wage job cos they are a fucking doddle' that pisses people off

I'm not trying to insult and I'm not trying to say those jobs are a "fucking doddle" or "stress free". Retail work is however, much easier and less stress than my job in my experience. Therefore I would consider a retail job/bar work or waitressing if the salary increased to £10 an hour and I doubt that I'm the only one.

Squished - there are still jobs that are probably underpaid for the level of skill required though, yours could potentially be one of those?

Ive worked in retail, hospitality, cleaning, factory work, admin, all low skilled jobs, but I didn't find them as stresful as the job I do now.

And no scary the woman in question wasn't a florist, she just owned that shop. You can say she wasn't a good sucess with her business, although it had been there a long time, but she decided the money wasn't enough. My point was it affected others.
Similar to me deciding that working as a teacher, or nurse might not be worthwhile if I got to do a similar job, for similar or more money, but not as much responsibility.

zany I agree you won't probably give up a £30 to go to a £10 but you very well might do to drop a pound or so. It's these pinch points that then become unfair.

I think that in some public sector professions people might drop a lot more than a pound or two for less responsibility and no overtime. Already many teachers are working as teaching assistants even though the salary is very low for example.

Care work is undervalued and underpaid. Ive done that too. As is Squisheds role.

I still don't get why if say i were on £15 an hour and feeling ok ish with that for the role, why i would begrudge someone junior to.me getting a tiny bit more.. I don't care what other people get once I'm roughly ok, in fact i see.more senior people who don't have the right ability and who don't deserve their pay than i see MacDonald s staff when deserve fuck all.

I am not twisting anything thank you

but what about the fact that less people would bother to go to uni to become doctors,lawyers,accountants, teachers etc ? Most people would probably just choose MW job as there is not financial benefit to take on a student loan and then years of stress studying and working in a professional job

If not what's the point of becoming a doctor for example. Granted some may become doctors as they see it's there social responsibility. Many wont

I dread hearing the minimum wage increase each year from a work prospective as I know I will be having the difficult conversation of how to increase everyone's wages to make it fair, the staff/child ratio obviously dictates how many staff we have working and now due to living wage we have no leeway, whereas before we would always aim to have an extra member of staff on each session, now we cannot do that and sometimes need the manager to be 'in numbers'. £10 ph without additional government funding will result in 80 children being without a preschool place.

Not all employers are about making a profit, we certainly aren't as we aren't allowed to be but for those absolutely insisting £10ph is essential I would love to hear how you think we could get round this?

I totally believe large private companies could increase wages however I truly believe all they would do is reduced the number of staff and expect everyone to do the extra work for no extra pay, that is certainly how the NHS is currently working.

I'm at uni so I can get a job that pays well. If I could have done without going to uni, the. I wouldn't have come. And I know people who won't come if the change goes ahead - these people could become teachers, accountants etc.

Rufus - you are, that comment (not mine) is not about people leaving well paid jobs for a minimum wage job, it is about people not training in the first place. That poster is probably right in part, people may not bother to do that extra training for a couple of quid an hour more. Many people do particular jobs as they are high earning ones, that is why I picked mine, it wasn't a life long calling. I think the examples the poster used were not the best ones as generally those professions are much higher paid than minimum wage a few years down the line but the principle is the same.

I got bored of posting to be fair to me zany

There were a few comments along the lines of poor doctors but i cant be bothered to go back and find them

To be completely honest i think we are agreeing

I have no problem saying that my very part time retail job is not stressful

For me

But i know there are a lot of stressful shitty paid jobs out there

I do know those quotes were not yours by the way...they were supposed to be examples...and fucking doddle was definitely my phase

Dh has a job which involves socializing in some very nice restaurants, i think that sounds like a fucking doddle...but i know its not

Actually it might be

Im not convinced thats its as awful as he says

Nursing used to be paid better in comparison with other jobs but with the NHS pay freeze non nursing work is now looking more attractive. I've just applied for an office/admin job outside the NHS.at 25-26k a year. So a comparable wage to a nurse.

Sitting at a desk, working 9-5 without the stress of running around like a headless chicken due to workload while worrying someone might die is very tempting.

Remember that to a nursing degree you now have to pay over nine thousand a year in degree fees. Are people really go

Yes I think we are TBH

Are people really going to do a nursing degree, get into all that debt for just over £11 an hour?

Some might, a lot may not.

If they increased MW to £10 I'd want a pay rise! I've worked damn hard to get where I am now (both through university and in work), deal with a lot more stress and responsibility and overtime (unpaid as I'm salary not paid per hour) than I would in most MW jobs such as our cleaners and receptionists. So whilst I'm not against everyone being paid a decent amount I am against earning the same as MW. Currently my salary works out at £10 per hour if I only do the minimum hours I am contracted for.

I feel the same sadandaxious.

But it seems that makes me a bad person.

Who said that lynette

Everyone in our firm is getting a whole 30p extra an hour as well i think

I assume that will eventually be the same with any future rises

Quite understand if yiu dont want to go back and look

I dont