To Think the Tories Are STILL At War With The Disabled?

[JoffreyBaratheon]

As parent of a disabled child, this is what I'm preoccupied with, during a General Election...

Under Cameron and Osborne, and iDS - it was clear the tories were engaging in an all out war on the disabled. Cuts to benefits, and services and of course, the loathed and disgusting PIP replacing DLA...

But what has strong and stable (well, weak an unstable) Theresa May done to reverse the damage? Nothing, so far as I can see.

My son had DLA for life and by some miracle, managed to get PIP but will now have to re-apply in five years. If the tories have the cure for autism and it is going to be made available in 5 years - fair enough. But something tells me - they haven't. We were put through months of hell for that.

Other disabled people and their carers have far worse stories.

Now I might be stupid but I can't see what May has done to address the callous culture of PIP. She is still attacking the disabled. Or am I missing something and AIBU?

I think this should be enough to lose them the election. The fact they have attacked disabled people to the extent they have. Am I the only one not to be hoodwinked by this 'I'm only a vicar's daughter' BS? What she has done to the disabled is the least 'christian' thing I can think of and I want her held to account for it. Anyone else?

The two things - hustings and TV debate - are not mutually exclusive. Why do you think they are?
I didn't say they were mutually exclusive. I said that getting out and about is more useful because it involves actual direct communication with voters, unscripted conversation. The tv debates are scripted. If a politician doesn't want to give an honest answer (and I'm talking about politicians from ALL parties) then they give a waffly script that doesn't answer the q but sounds good. That's pointless. It's basically a party political broadcast for each party merged into one long one. Being able to have a face to face conversation with your MP (or with TM / JC etc.) means you can talk to them about the issues that bother you personally. Surely that is more beneficial?
I don't doubt for a second that she CAN do both. But she doesn't HAVE to because, last time I looked, it's a free country and as PM she has the right to run her own diary and do it her way.

CGT is going up as is IHT - all these hit the people who have money.
And under Labour the IHT threshold would be halved so there would be even more ordinary people paying it.

All this idiotic talk about 'golf club friends' 'Etonian chinless wonders' etc is entirely typical of the class envy , endemic in left wing politics.

There is nothing remotely upper class about grammar school educated Mrs. May. and actually even if she were , so what?

I assume all the lefties on here would prefer our Prime Minister to have originated from some sink estate and educated in a failing comprehensive.

If you really believe disability benefits are easy to get or generous then I hope you never need to claim them as you are in for a big shock. For those of you who believe that the Tories have introduced these reforms to save money or stop fraud you have been misled. I can only imagine that if you believe it is a generous system you would rather see the poor/disabled living some kind of Dickensian lifestyle.

It now costs 10x more to administer the system to the benefit of private companies and not the tax payer. In cutting fraud many vulnerable people have been treated appallingly. I volunteer for a charity that helps claimants appeal and see lots and lots of people in terrible situations they should not be in if we had a welfare system that was actually fit for purpose.

Exactly LadyPW
There seems to be this black hole of understanding about how much ordinary working people contribute. The guy who slogs his guts out, pays his bills, buys a tiny flat, saves and saves..

This swathe of Rich, (golf-clubbing, merlot-swigging, pinstripe wearing, 4x4 driving) People who Should Pay More are not really the ones that tax hikes affect most - although there is no doubt they do pay more too.

For everyone who has rent, Council Tax, and living expenses paid there is someone else struggling to cover their bills and receiving no additional help from the state.

These people will vote. One way or another.

yanbu
\wtf point is there in wasting money re assess someone with a disability that will never get better?
scaremon started this , yep they guy with the disabled child!!
I haven't heard a peep about it in any of mays crap that she comes out with.
how anyone can vote for them is beyond me

Should we say that benefits should only fund the bare minimum?

It doesnt even do that now

Good point about the Inheritance tax proposal under Labour LadyPW.

That would mean that if the ghastly Corbyn got in, many many people living in quite modest homes, particularly here in the south and especially London of course, would be hit by this tax.

misskelly - I also agree with you. The situations of some people are appalling. The private companies should not be making money out of this. At all.

But you have to see that there are several other angles to this. No-one wants the poor to live a Dickensian lifestyle. No-one. But no-one wants to struggle along seeing others do better for staying at home either.

Oh he'll get it lovelybath (he is very severely disabled, non-verbal, severe learning disabilities) - it is just such a waste of time filling in exactly the same information I have given them 6 times already this year. Most of that money will just go straight to SS anyway.

Those of you who think the current disability benefit system is fair come and spend an afternoon in the disabilty centre I work in.

Disabled people not being able to afford food,

People in wheelchairs having their mobility cars taken away and then losing their jobs because they can't get to work. The appeals process task that long they have lost their job. They will get a car back but too late.
People lost their jobs because they have had their PiP taken away and now can't get access to work.
People coming in crying and begging us to help them because their neightbours have read and believed a daily mail headline about how the majority of people on sickness benefit can work and are now abusing them mentally and physically.

Never mind though eh you keep telling yourself the system is fair because Frank down the road is on benefits, does not work and still manages to have sky telly and go on holiday

I don't think anyone is saying that the system is fair. I agree that for disabled people who have to go through the assessments and humiliation of the whole bloody system is outrageous. And the delays unforgivable.

BUT - the only reason that has been allowed to happen is because - and we HAVE to admit this or we get nowhere - "Frank down the road" is swinging the lead and getting HB, CTB, DLA, ESA and fuck knows what else.

Unless we can get away from the black and white thinking that ALL disability claimants are deserving and ALL critics are Evil then we cannot improve things.

**The fraud figures are those that are known about, or guessed. (And what the Daily Mail has to do with these discussions I don't know).

It is the people who stay on ESA or PIP for years and years and will never get caught because they are not going to do anything obvious like go on a ski-ing holiday when they have said they can't walk more than 50m. They will truly not be able to walk 50m because they never have to*The fraud figures are those that are known about, or guessed. (And what the Daily Mail has to do with these discussions I don't know).

It is the people who stay on ESA or PIP for years and years and will never get caught because they are not going to do anything obvious like go on a ski-ing holiday when they have said they can't walk more than 50m. They will truly not be able to walk 50m because they never have *

So what you are saying someone who has said they can't walk 50 meters but actually can will never be caught out.
For benefits you have to have backing letters from your doctors plus an assessment, of course you would be caught out, you can not just turn up at your doctor and say "I suddenly can't walk more then 50 meters"
Have you ever actually seen a PIP form and the detail you have to go into?

Yes but the problem is Frank down the road is still cheating the system and its people who need help who are being let down.

The system now is worse as people are still cheating and others are killing themselves after having a benefit stopped they should have.
The numbers of benefit fraud are low, yet the torys are still targeting disabled people instead of going after tax avoiders.

Why is the country not up in arms over that?

Yes I have seen them. I know that on an assessment they ask you to walk and they watch while you do. I know that they ask how you got here and how you do your shopping. I know that they ask about sticks and aids and if you can move from a wheelchair to a seat without help and if you can stand to prepare a meal. I know that they write to or contact your HCP. I do know - only too well. And I support people in a practical way to get what they are entitled to.

That is also how I know that there are people who really, if they had to, could probably work. To pretend it doesn't happen really does not help the debate.

Yes Frank is still cheating and there are still tax avoiders and the government is going after anyone they can. (The tax avoiders don't get much publicity when caught unless they are famous so not clear how many get done every year)

We should protest more but if we continue with the blinkered approach it is not a battle that will ever be won.

Sorry - got to go now - dinner to prepare. Back soon, I expect.

For over 20 years I worked full time, paid all my taxes, volunteered at my local hospital. Normal, contributing member of society. When my health declined to the point of being unable to work I was utterly fucked. I'd moved to an area where I could work- I was a nanny, I moved to London and was able to afford rent and the costs of living there due to my salary. After getting so ill I can barely stand I was utterly stuck, my rent was £1200 per month with was fine and dandy when I worked 60-70 hours a week but the max HB you can get was £70 a week. My savings disappeared completely as I went through the process of getting a diagnosis, trying to sort a medication regime to control the pain and other issues. I honestly thought I could get well again and work again! I bloody miss working so much.

It cost me over £2000 to move. It may seem insane- just move somewhere cheaper, surely not too bad. I moved back near my family after months of searching for a landlord who would take someone on benefits. My family has no room for me and have a house with difficult access so I couldn't move in with them. I finally finally found a landlord who would rent to me. £600 a month so all of my ESA and HB, and borrowed money would pay bills and food. At that point I'd been trying to claim PIP for over a year with no sign of an assessment so had given up. Borrowed money paid for the move itself and getting myself 300 miles across the country, and the first month and deposit as my savings were nil.

This is the reality. Not every case is the same yet they try to make every claim fit the mold. Big TV? I myself don't have a big one but if I did I'd have bought it when I was working. But once I'm disabled I suddenly lose the right to own it without suspicion? A TV I bought maybe 5 years ago would be worth a grand total of £10 to sell now. But it's big therefore I'm a benefit cheat? I should sell it for a loss and buy a small black and white TV to fit the view of how disabled people can live.

I can go months without speaking to a single human except grocery delivery person and my mum. Takes a full day to take a shower with the pain and issues with my joints, nausea from my pills and sheer exhaustion from nights up in pain. If having Sky TV or a large TV is my only joy in life and I could afford I'd bloody have it. Or should I sit in the dark because I'm such a burden.

In order to prove I'm as ill as the consultants I see say I am I had to travel miles, at my own cost, to see a bloody physio who has no bloody clue. At my ESA assessment at least they treated me like a human being. At my PIP assessment, which happened 14 months after I first applied, I was treated like garbage. Anyone who feels everyone on disabilities are scamming need to sit down and spend 10 mins telling a complete stranger the exact way they wipe their arse and be questioned about it repeatedly until said stranger types it up. And that's just a standard question, not why I say she treated me like garbage, that's a whole other issue.

I'm now living on a line. If the benefits I claimed and are entitled to are paid on time as expected I can pay my rent and bills and live tot he next month. If a neighbour takes exception to me or is vindictive and reports me for falsely claiming they will stop my benefits to investigate and I will lose my home. If there is an error in their system and I don't get paid that month I lose my home. When this area moves to UC I don't know what I'll be entitled to and how much less than I currently get it will be. Terrifying, living on this line. But I'm probably faking right.

Yes most people with disabilities could work
If the perfect job was out there with the perfect boss and perfect reasonable adjustments.
But in reality who is going to employ them all

There aren't enough jobs for people who could work a few days a week a month, or could if adjustments were made, or could if they had support getting used to it and help with getting there.

Given that, the previous decision to pay people sickness benefits rather than waste money trying to get a 50-year-old illiterate ex-miner with backache into a new career, made sense. Why pay staff to assess every week someone's efforts to find work, for 10 years, when you could just give them an ongoing payment?

Many people could probably work if work was available, but the work goes to the fit and healthy and flexible. Disability Employment advisers were always a joke and now mostly don't exist anyway.

Many more people could and would work in all sorts of roles, if they could rely on PIP and Access to Work etc. Making someone wait 18 months for a PIP assessment, cancelling three appointments, and then requiring 50% of people to appeal in order to get assistance it should be obvious they need, is a ridiculously inefficient process.

About 1% of disability claims may be fraudulent (the vast majority of claims accused of fraud are simply because neighbours etc only see people out on good days), but is it really worth making 99% of people with disabilities' lives that much harder and causing so much anxiety and stress at best, starvation and suicide at worst?

Disclaimer: I have claimed PIP, probably 10 years after I should have done but I was never well enough to complete a DLA claim within the time limit. I've advised about 20 other people regarding claims too.

1. Benefits fraud is massively overestimated and intentionally over-emphasized by the press and TV as part of a plan to demonise and scapegoat disabled people because they are unable to fight back - benefits fraud is actually a relatively tiny amount.

1. There would be more than enough money to financially support all disabled and in need people ten times over if the government went after tax evasion from big business. But they won't due to cronyism and the media ignore it because they're all in bed together.

If you happily slurp down Starbucks and read your Amazon Kindle while ranting about benefits frauds stealing your taxes, it's time to educate yourself and stop letting the government brainwash you into doing their dirty work.

Should we say that benefits should only fund the bare minimum?

A true welfare system would provide heat, food and shelter.

When it starts to be generous then that's when people play the system and tax payers get cross.

The system did need a reform, it's still very generous and should always have checks in place. Very easy for own doctors to be manipulated so an independent body is needed.

My husband works for a charity he helps people with substance abuse problems and prison leavers find work and training. Goverment funding is always a big worry. 12 months ago he was diagnosed with a lifelong disability. We have had to fight hard to get pip there has been a mandatory reconsideration and a appeal which he was told before he went in he could lose all his pip and did he really want to progress with the appeal he said no. It's a huge worry that pip is not enough to to support our family if he can't keep working, i work as a ta a job I love and fits in ideally with our young children but I will probably have to leave to find full time work soon. At the moment my oh works( well he's been signed off sick for 6 weeks atm) I want him to reduce his hours at work he cannot cope with full time but he says he has to work full time so we can pay the mortgage. We are in our 40's and I am so worried about the future.

it's still very generous

Is it? How long have you been on benefits?

Goldilocks - I am so sorry to hear your story - and once again you should not have had to suffer that. No way.

NotCitrus is right about the jobs. I worked with a pioneering HR manager in Germany who is forcing her large company to make sure that 6- 8 % of her staff are disabled in some way. She has made adaptations, introduced training for her mangers and staff and focused on positive recruitment policies.

Something we could learn from.

'grammar school educated Mrs. May' also attended St. Juliana's Convent School for Girls - an Independent school.