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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To Think the Tories Are STILL At War With The Disabled?

554 replies

JoffreyBaratheon · 03/05/2017 10:56

As parent of a disabled child, this is what I'm preoccupied with, during a General Election...

Under Cameron and Osborne, and iDS - it was clear the tories were engaging in an all out war on the disabled. Cuts to benefits, and services and of course, the loathed and disgusting PIP replacing DLA...

But what has strong and stable (well, weak an unstable) Theresa May done to reverse the damage? Nothing, so far as I can see.

My son had DLA for life and by some miracle, managed to get PIP but will now have to re-apply in five years. If the tories have the cure for autism and it is going to be made available in 5 years - fair enough. But something tells me - they haven't. We were put through months of hell for that.

Other disabled people and their carers have far worse stories.

Now I might be stupid but I can't see what May has done to address the callous culture of PIP. She is still attacking the disabled. Or am I missing something and AIBU?

I think this should be enough to lose them the election. The fact they have attacked disabled people to the extent they have. Am I the only one not to be hoodwinked by this 'I'm only a vicar's daughter' BS? What she has done to the disabled is the least 'christian' thing I can think of and I want her held to account for it. Anyone else?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
WankingMonkey · 09/05/2017 22:01

Sorry to hear about your experience Pixies. What really helped me is a group thats based in our local housing association building.

www.durham.gov.uk/welfarerights

I do not know if these groups exist outside of my area, but they were so helpful to me. They cannot get involved until the tribunal stage though as they do not have enough staff/funding to help before that. But they were amazing and so supportive. The woman who was dealing with my claim was so angry at what was going on. She said for me to spread the word of their services if I heard of anyone else being 'basically, fucked over' (her words!). I do not know many people on PIP/ESA though so only recently passed the details onto my husbands aunty who has various medical problems and got no points on transfer from lifetime DLA to PIP Sad She lost her car too during all of this...I expect she will get her award back but she says when it is reinstated you cannot apply for your car for 6 months from that date...not sure if thats true or not as I have never used the scheme but its all just so horrendous.

Ceto · 09/05/2017 22:04

I used to work with someone who sat on Benefits tribunals. He had some expertise in mental health, and used to get seriously pissed off at the appalling quality of the evidence provided by ATOS. He said that assessments were regularly carried out by nurses with zero MH experience, and no effort was made to get medical records. Detailed reports from psychiatrists who had been treating the patients for years and were eminent experts in their fields were regularly ignored in favour of some nurse who'd seen the patient for all of 20 minutes and was prepared to say they had no mental health problems. He reached a point when he would regularly threaten to report the individuals concerned to the Nursing Council for unethical conduct, which apparently led to some radical revisions of their medical opinions.

HelenaDove · 09/05/2017 22:41

Sorry its #cripthevoteuk

The one i mentioned earlier is the American one.

TitaniasCloset · 09/05/2017 22:52

Just read the rest of the thread. Scary how little imagination and empathy some people have.

HelenaDove · 10/05/2017 00:18

Some of them still believe that DLA is just an out of work benefit

Ceto · 10/05/2017 00:21

No, because they all want to kill the disabled, don't you know?

Trainer, how did you manage to interpret a statement that the conservatives have no interest in helping disabled children to reach their full potential into this? Do you normally have comprehension problems?

Original poster
JoffreyBaratheon · 10/05/2017 10:11

Maybe we should all target our tory MPs about the targets to fail thing and public money being wasted on ATOS, CAPITA, etc. We're essentially throwing money down the drain, paying these people who are then incentivised to lie on assessments.

My tory MP (slug/Tory Boy love child Nigel Adams) has suspended his Twitter account during the GE. I'd love to shame him directly.

OP posts:
Original poster
JoffreyBaratheon · 10/05/2017 10:14

Also - anyone know the figures? Are we paying ATOS, CAPITA, etc more money than is 'saved' by ending the fraction of 1% of fraudulent, old DLA claims?

Anyone else happy giving public money to companies with shareholders, to assess the disabled? As a French company, I'm assuming ATOS profits go abroad... This is the British taxpayers' money this government are wasting. Where's the outcry about that?

OP posts:
NoLotteryWinYet · 10/05/2017 11:07

I'd love to know if we're paying per assessment too, and paying to fail people. The targets should be about getting it right first time, and these firms (well they shouldn't be involved anyway but...) losing money for things going to appeal, surely that's what you'd want to incentivize.

Getting it right first time means doing the assessments properly so they don't get overturned on appeal, whatever the decision. That's clearly a massive problem now.

ExplodedCloud · 10/05/2017 11:34

I assume that every appeal process costs the government more than the assessment did in the first place. So the tax payer pays the company to do the assessment (which is done as cheaply as possible to leave a profit on the contract) and then pays again for an appeal to be held by more expensive (suitable) people.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 10/05/2017 11:55

It costs more than it saves according to the national audit office

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dwp-fit-to-work-assessments-cost-more-than-they-save-report-reveals-a6801636.html

JustAnotherPoster00 · 10/05/2017 11:57

And youve got to love this little nugget that Atos dont even pay tax

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10442231/Atos-G4S-paid-no-corporation-tax-last-year-despite-carrying-out-2billion-of-taxpayer-funded-work.html

LurkingHusband · 10/05/2017 12:10

(sigh)

The whole point of PIP, ESA and the Bedroom Tax was never to save money - so it makes no difference if it costs more to implement than it saves. (In that respect it's like a lot of laws which do more harm than good).

The entire exercise was to impose Tory Victorian morality on society. If you are in a situation where you need the help of the state for whatever reason then you are clearly - in some way - morally deficient; and as such deserve whatever comes your way.

That's the heart of Tory thinking. Forget what they say, and look at what they do. Things make a lot more sense all of a sudden.

The only problem for society, is that the Tories have managed to revive the concept of disadvantage as God given. However they have also left out the bit where the better-off saw it as their Christian duty to help those less fortunate. (Think of the Cadburys, the Peabodys, the Rowntrees, Quakers).

To a Tory, any money spent on teaching the poor a lesson is Money Well Spent.

All we need to complete the vibe, is a revival of that verse in "All Things Bright and Beautiful" which insists that the poor deserve to be poor ... and while we're at it, we may as well start singing the last verse of the National Anthem which tells the Scots their place in the firmament too.

Original poster
JoffreyBaratheon · 10/05/2017 13:21

The whole point of PIP, ESA and the Bedroom Tax was never to save money

With respect - do you believe that?

OP posts:
HelenaDove · 10/05/2017 13:28

Joffrey Lurking has a point.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/benefit-bosses-axe-ms-sufferers-10188400

Woman loses Motability to save 8k then they have to pay thousands MORE so she can get to work.

NoLotteryWinYet · 10/05/2017 13:36

The morality question is harder to prove - if it's not saving money, they should be tackled on that too and change it. That's something specific, measurable and hard to get away from.

LovelyBath77 · 10/05/2017 13:58

Apparently Scotland are giving up using these firms to carry out assessments. Wonder what will happen instead?

FanjoForTheMammaries · 10/05/2017 13:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LovelyBath77 · 10/05/2017 14:03

That was a long about what they are going to try in Scotland which is getting rid of profit making companies and establishing their own system instead. "One of our fundamental principles is that profit should never be a motive nor play any part in assessing or making decisions on people’s health and eligibility for benefits.

"Setting the new system up is a hugely complex task, but a challenge that we relish and one that we are absolutely determined to get right.

LovelyBath77 · 10/05/2017 14:03

Could the UK get rid of them too? I wonder...

LurkingHusband · 10/05/2017 14:06

The whole point of PIP, ESA and the Bedroom Tax was never to save money

With respect - do you believe that?

Who cares what I think ?

I believe the evidence of my own senses and knowledge:

1 - the measures I mention have not saved money - by the governments own admission
2 - the system is being allowed to continue as is, despite (1)
3 - therefore the intention was not to save money. If it was, these measures would be deemed to be a failure.

I can't find it now, but there was a slip-up by one of the ministers earlier this year, when they made a statement bemoaning the fact that the PIP process had not reduced the number of claimants - as if that had been it's intention all along.

You believe what you are told. I will believe what I see. One of us won't drive off a cliff.

LurkingHusband · 10/05/2017 14:12

The morality question is harder to prove

For me it's the easiest thing to prove ... the fact that people are allowed to live in squalor and poverty in the UK - one of the worlds richest countries - is a clear statement that the people of the UK (or those that vote) are prepared to countenance it. It's hardly like we haven't had centuries to tackle it.

FanjoForTheMammaries · 10/05/2017 14:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lastcheesestraw · 10/05/2017 14:28

Just found out that we now have to claim Universal Credit rather than Housing Benefit, and we will lose over £100 a month on doing so.

Still same illness, same circs, same husband seriously wanting to die and more so all the time because he feels that this is what the government wants.

UC was cruelly used to sneak these cuts in by the back door.

What can Tory supporters say to this? Nothing that will make it right.

Imagine if the middle and high earners suddenly got a demand for an extra £100 a month in tax? There would be outrage. But take it away from ill and disabled people who already have far far less - sure go right ahead.