To not really want to talk to her anymore?

[lotusbomb]

I made a friend when I started my new teaching job last year. We were both new members of a relatively small staff team which has a tendency to be quite cliquey. Said friend is aware of her own tendency to put her foot in her mouth, say the wrong thing etc etc. She's always valued our friendship as I'm always honest with her and tell her the truth.

She came to my home last week and were chatting about work, kids, etc and she mentioned one particular parent that has been difficult to deal with, he is from a country that she once lived/worked in and she had a bad experience there. She said "he looks at me like i'm a bug he's like to step on an in my head i'm just thinking 'go fuck yourself you [insert nationality here] piece of shit'". Obviously I shut her down immediately. I told her she cannot say things like that at, tar everyone with the same brush etc etc, basically tore a strop off her. I told her she was was being racist to which she retorted "it's not being racist, it's being prejudice" (so that makes it OK then ). I then reminded her that half of my daughters heritage is from that same place and DD (5) was within earshot but thankfully wearing headphones so didn't hear. Not that it matters at all, I don't want DD hearing hate about any group of people at all. She's not even fully aware of that part of her heritage really as her father is absent but I don't ever speak like that around her, we don't have a negative household in that respect.

Anyway, a week and a half has now passed and even though I addressed it as it happened, I can't seem to get past it. She is obviously aware as she has been kind of tip toeing around me, asking me if I'm ok but it is obvious that I've withdrawn from her.

I do feel i suppose extra disappointed as she's not hugely well liked amongst the team because she rubs people up the wrong way and I've always been more patient with her than the others. She was recently accused of being discriminatory by another parent which really upset her and in fairness, the accusation itself was baseless so it's ironic that she felt some comfortable to be discriminatory in front of me despite knowing how much I condemn that behavior.

Anyway, I haven't addressed it with her since. Partly because I addressed it at the time and don't see the need for me to be the one that brings it up again and partly just because I have a lot on my plate at the moment and I'm just trying to get through each day as stress free as possible at the moment. I supposed today I was just reflecting on how quickly hearing ugliness come out of somebodies mouth has made me uncomfortable and not particularly want to spend time with them anymore. AIBU?

Why is this even a debate? Why does race/colour/nationality even need to be brought into it? Whether it's racist or prejudiced or bigoted it's still flat out wrong.
A good friend of mine went off on a rant last week quoting Enoch Powell and the rivers of blood speech about immigrants and housing and all the rest of it. I literally stood there open mouthed and it took me a good minute or so to be able to speak. I told her that if that was the first thing I'd ever heard her say we'd never have become friends and I was gutted that she was so bigoted. I have friends from all over the world, different races/faiths and have never once had to call someone out on such disgusting views. I've majorly pulled back from her now which is hard as our DDs are best friends, but I just can't engage with her in the same way after hearing such bile.

I merely pointed out that I do not think it should be classed as racist as OP thinks, but as prejudiced as OP's colleague says.

Your statement is incorrect. I did not stand firm on thinking it was racist. She said it was prejudice, I accepted that. What I fail to see is that prejudice is more acceptable than racism.

What I fail to see is that prejudice is more acceptable than racism

This!

Prejudice or racism all stems from somewhere - fear, ignorance, hate projected onto an entire people but just because you can recognise the cause in one case doesn't make it more acceptable than the other, where the cause might be a little less obvious which is what a previous poster seemed to suggest....

However, I was drawn to WeAllHave's post as having grown up in a very isolated community where racist language was rife I can see how it can be a learnt behaviour...It doesn't make it right or acceptable but I do applaud the OP for showing patience and seeing the best in this person....I suppose it comes down to whether she is able to really hear what you are saying and understand that that sort of phrase is deeply insulting....

I do think we need to engage with unsavoury views however hard as simply trying to shut them down doesn't get rid of them, it just pushes them underground....but having said that, if this is going to cause you more pain than gain then I would understand if you were to step back

She doesn't sound great OP.

Is she from an African country herself?

@muffin, I understand what you're saying. She's made comments that I don't agree with before and I've always pulled her up which is why she always says she appreciates my honesty. This particular incident was just complete unnecessary offensiveness at which point I'm done. That's not ignorance, that is actively being malicious with your words.

@derxa no she's not, she's from America.

lotusbomb ok, then that's fair enough...we can't all go around showing endless patience and understanding all the time (that would be exhausting!)...if you feel that this is now going to impact negatively on you to be around this person then I don' t think you are being unreasonable t step back....also, I and all other posters have the benefit of being slightly at an emotional distance so only you can really feel the immediate impact of her comments....I certainly wouldn't want to go back and live in the place I grew up in tbh!

Judge Milian from the People's Court has a saying: It doesn't come out of your mouth unless it lives in your heart.

People want to say these things and then try to backtrack by saying "well, it was in the heat of the moment" but I think Judge Milian is right. You're not going to turn into a completely different person just because you're a bit het up. If anything, you're going to lose your grip on the filter that keeps that unacceptable stuff inside most of the time - because you know it's unacceptable, either for the company you're in, or it's just unacceptable period.

It's like in vino veritas - In wine, truth. No one turns into a raging bigot just because they've had a few. That nastiness has always been there, it's just been kept at bay by sobriety and recognition of the social contract. The alcohol loosens the inhibitions and whoomp, there it is.

In short, I think you're well shot of a person like this. It wouldn't have come out of her mouth if it didn't live in her heart, and if she doesn't like not having many friends, I would suggest to her that she thinks before opening her mouth in future.

Not only that, but when someone she considers a friend is saying "you said a thing up with which I can not put", instead of rushing to defend herself, she should have stopped, listened to, and assimilated what you were saying. Getting defensive tells me she doesn't care about learning and bettering herself, she just cares about minimizing the things she says that people are telling her are offensive.

Find me someone without prejudice and I'll find you a liar.

But I would feel very uncomfortable exposing DD to this colleague though. Trust your instinct and stay away from her.

I think if I heard someone refer to someone as " you Nigerian piece of shit" I'd be very shocked. It's not a very nice thing to say at all. I understand why you are taking a step back from the friendship,

Racism? Prejudice? Stereotyping? Racial discrimination? ...it's all semantics. If it made you feel uncomfortable enough to have to 'correct ' your friend and ask her to refrain from this behaviour then unless you can get over it you will always be on edge with what could be uttered from her mouth. If she has a reputation for offending then I would avoid, be civil but not as friendly from now.
If the lady is constantly making these 'gaffes ' without anyone doing anything than maybe you distancing yourself will make her think about the consequences of what she is saying?
I think if she knew your DD shares half her heritage with the country in question then headphones or not, that is disrespectful ! Just my opinion based on being mother of mixed race children.

No you aren't unreasonable not to want to spend time with someone whose views you find repugnant.

Prejudice vs racism is just semantics

Everyone has prejudice against certain groups; we had a fascinating lecture at uni about it, it's how our brains group people to cope with the huge array of factors in life (e.g. Not just around countries but also jobs/hobbies etc). However the key is to recognise it's an assumption and have an open mind when meeting new people, and obviously not use those societal factors as a way of insulting someone.

Anyway that's just an aside. Sounds like you don't like her, she's showed you who she is, so just stick with the professional side of your relationship.

I think in getting to know anyone as a friend or a lover, we fall for things we like about them, but it is when you find out their major flaws (and we all have them), that is when you know whether that friendship is going to last.

Condemning an entire country of people is not on, but very typical of ex-pat behaviour. I live in Mexico and have had a few friends who are fellow-countrymen and spent a lot of time with other ex-pats. They invariably ended up making ridiculous sweeping statements about Mexicans, because that is what ex-pats do.

I live in Mexico and have had a few friends who are fellow-countrymen and spent a lot of time with other ex-pats. They invariably ended up making ridiculous sweeping statements about Mexicans, because that is what ex-pats do.

Interesting view points. We're actually both ex-pats and I've noticed a lot of the staff here do it quite a lot. I suppose the reason I don't tend to is because I've been on the receiving end of those sweeping generalisations myself.

"Everyone has prejudices' doesnt make racism right.

Prejudice v racism is NOT just semantics.

Prejudice comes from to prejudge - we wold have died out as a species without it.

We take what we have learnt about people and situations and we use it to base our next decisions on.

We all tell our kids "beware of strangers", we all judge every day - we have to. We pick a school for our kids based on its reputation. We take our experience of Tories/Landlords?union members Dentists etc and draw conclusions.

The intelligent person bears this in mind but does not assume he/she is correct. We re assess all the time, we constantly check our own perceptions and we do not treat people badly because of a view we have of their group.

Racism is when you use that prejudice to believe that an entire race is inferior/evil and behave to their detriment.

Verbalising prejudice is racism

You get on a train at midnight. You can choose to sit in a compartment with:
A single white middle aged man
A single black young man
A single old lady - Asian
A group of football fans - young - different races
A woman with two school-aged children

You make a choice. Your choice would be determined by your experience. Your own age/sex/race/colour/language would impact that choice. "You" and "I" would not necessarily choose the same carriage. (Doesn't mean we are right - we could still get robbed/attacked). That is prejudice.

The next day we, the bosses, are interviewing for a top job. We have candidates across all races and ages - we throw all the applications in the bin except those from people who are the same race as we are. That is racism.

"I do feel i suppose extra disappointed as she's not hugely well liked amongst the team because she rubs people up the wrong way and I've always been more patient with her than the others."

You sound like you expect her to show y deference and extra special kindness because you have been "patient" with her. Stop doing her favours.

I don't think it matters what you call it. I would be very disappointed if a friend of mine displayed that attitude, and sad. YANBU to distance yourself from her. It does make it worse that your daughter is half the race she spoke about...that's thoughtless apart from anything else.

We are all only human and everyone has people they have to deal with who upset or make them feel bad but if a colleague of mine just used the phrase "piece of shit" I'd lose respect for them. I'd feel the same as you about the rest of it.

In my experience if people have few positive relationships with their colleagues there is a very good reason Why!

You sound like you expect her to show y deference and extra special kindness because you have been "patient" with her. Stop doing her favours.

Its nothing to do with extra special kindness, thats a massive misinterpretation.

What I'm saying is that people wrote her off very quickly because of the negativity she often displays which is often related to an attitude of intolerance, ignorance etc. As one of the few people that takes the time to be patient, understand her and educate her rather than write her off, it was disappointing to see her be so offensive so easily after constantly lamenting about how she wants to learn more about other peoples cultures and experiences of prejudice etc.

Maybe she just needs you to educate her a bit more, OP.

You also express disappointment that she reacted defensively when you called her racist. What exactly did you expect?

Prejudice is not ok but it's better than racism, that's the point she was making.