To think the Uni Maintenance Loan shouldn't be means tested?

[Ellisandra]

Interested to hear reasons why it should be, and maybe adjust my view!

My soon-to-be stepdaughter is going to uni in September.

Because her father is moving in with me this summer, her maintenance loan will means tested and my income rather than his (her mother died) means she'll lose £4200 of it.
I will make up the nearly £400 a month, that is not an issue - we are a family.

I would support that for a grant, but this is a loan.

I get that there are admin costs, defaulted loans, people who never earn over the repayment threshold... And interest is low and much delayed repayment so it's not a money spinner for the government. But it's still a loan, not a grant.

Surely there are plenty of people who can't afford to top it up for their child? Household income over £60K and you lose £4200 - £60K doesn't go that far in London mortgages with commuting costs thrown in - £400 is a lot to find. In our case, we couldn't have planned for it - 2 years ago I didn't know I'd be getting a SD! (Lucky me though she's fab )

Then there'll be people who could afford it but refuse.

I was lucky to go to uni before tuition fees, and I didn't have a penny from my parents, I worked my way through. So I don't think kids are snowflakes who can't do that

But I just don't get why some students will be denied access to this because of their parents?

Even if there was a tiered rate so you could get the rest at a higher interest rate, maybe? Just seems really unfair that a student is denied it when a parent (or step parent) can't be forced to give it to them, and anyway may not be able.

Slightly on a tangent here, but my DS went to Uni in September 2011. His £100k a year Dad walked out on me a month later. DS got a full grant as well as his loan as he was assessed solely on my low income. I am so glad he did because otherwise Uni would have been very difficult, if not impossible - but it still makes my blood boil that 'the taxpayer' part funded DS through Uni while his high earning Dad did not, and would not, give him a penny.

I don't think a lot of people realise. There is awareness of loans not grants and tuition fees but not that average kids can't borrow enough to live due to parents salary.
Our friends have just realised and are not willing to make up difference with their dd as they see no need for her to study away (live at home/train to local ex poly suffice) for her it probably would have been that uni anyway but very limiting.

'I work in HE it's a shit system adopted by politicians with the assumption that an independent student (under 25 or one who hasn't supported themselves for 3 years prior to UNi or who isn't likely to be estranged from parents on a permanent basis and can evidence this)'

In the US I knew a few people who married at 18 in order to qualify for 'independence', does that work here, too?

If married would be classed as independent I think but not totally sure.
It is a shit system and parliament have rushed through tuition fee increase bill too and if torries stay in power tuition fees will keep rising so only the very rich will be able to afford to go and many like myself in HE will likely be very soon out of a job. If things don't turn around.

Yes married is classed as independent. Also if you can demonstrate you have earned around £10k+ in each of the three years preceding application (even if living at home). Need to set those y10s up with enterprising businesses I guess (sounds like something the truly loaded might manage).

This is the crap that made me vote lib dem when clegg was running them (I was a student and it was my first ge I could vote in) - and why lots of students protested (and why many people won't be voting for them again). Sadly they didn't manage to make the changes they wanted to, while paired with cons. (I'm not trying to persuade anyone's vote - I haven't made my mind up either, frankly they are all crap for different reasons imo it's about picking the least crap)

Expat oh god, please tell me you're joking when you say about marrying to prove independence - never a good idea to marry for anything other than being totally over the top in love with someone

Usually you have to be an adult to attend university, so what has your parent's incomes got to do with it? They have no responsibility to you as an adult.

"On a different level - I think it's outrageous the government expects adults of 18+ to be supported financially by other adults"

^ ^
This.
I couldn't go to uni, I couldn't afford it, my parents (DM&SD) had 2 other small children at home, earned too much for me to get much of a loan, but couldn't afford to support me, away from home at uni because of their outgoings.
I could have understood had it been a grant, but this was a loan to be paid back. Felt a bit sore I wasn't going to get the education I wanted and therefore the career I wanted, but I've gone a different way. By the time my sister went to uni, parents were split and she got loans, plus extras from both competing to outdo each other parents. She's got a good career now, and I'm grateful she could have that, but probably only because our parents split.

So if students get married at 18, earn 10k a year 3 years prior to going to uni, can prove they are irreconcilably and likely to be permanently estranged from parents, parents split up and or give up any well paid jobs or the whole family move to Scotland (if things stay the way they are) 3 years prior to offspring going to uni this is the only way students can get a chance of a reasonable loan to help with living costs .

'Expat oh god, please tell me you're joking when you say about marrying to prove independence - never a good idea to marry for anything other than being totally over the top in love with someone'

No, I'm not, Phil. I've known people who've done it to become independent for financial aid purposes. I didn't myself, but I know people who have and in particular, my nieces in the US, ages 20 and 22, know two who have and I know them, too, through them. FWIW, I also disagree with the only 'good' reason for marrying someone being 'OTT in love' with another person. I can think of a number of very good reasons for marriage that have nothing to do with silly romanticism.

And a lot of very good reasons why being 'OTT in love with someone' is not a good reason to marry.