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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the Uni Maintenance Loan shouldn't be means tested?

111 replies

Ellisandra · 27/04/2017 20:49

Interested to hear reasons why it should be, and maybe adjust my view!

My soon-to-be stepdaughter is going to uni in September.

Because her father is moving in with me this summer, her maintenance loan will means tested and my income rather than his (her mother died) means she'll lose £4200 of it.
I will make up the nearly £400 a month, that is not an issue - we are a family.

I would support that for a grant, but this is a loan.

I get that there are admin costs, defaulted loans, people who never earn over the repayment threshold... And interest is low and much delayed repayment so it's not a money spinner for the government. But it's still a loan, not a grant.

Surely there are plenty of people who can't afford to top it up for their child? Household income over £60K and you lose £4200 - £60K doesn't go that far in London mortgages with commuting costs thrown in - £400 is a lot to find. In our case, we couldn't have planned for it - 2 years ago I didn't know I'd be getting a SD! (Lucky me though she's fab Grin)

Then there'll be people who could afford it but refuse.

I was lucky to go to uni before tuition fees, and I didn't have a penny from my parents, I worked my way through. So I don't think kids are snowflakes who can't do that Wink

But I just don't get why some students will be denied access to this because of their parents?

Even if there was a tiered rate so you could get the rest at a higher interest rate, maybe? Just seems really unfair that a student is denied it when a parent (or step parent) can't be forced to give it to them, and anyway may not be able.

OP posts:
Original poster
Ellisandra · 27/04/2017 23:48

The website is very clear on that! Yes it's based on previous tax year earnings - but it does not matter if they were earned before we became a household! They work out who is in the household now - then take their income from the relevant year!

In fact, it's marriage or living together.

We're actually getting married in July but won't live together until September. That's actually because of SD and Uni - we think it makes sense not to move 2 sets of children in together, we're waiting til Uni. She knows this and agrees - in case it sounds heartless to all-change when her bed isn't cold Grin

So I looked to see whether that was a loophole - but marriage counts. I suppose that makes sense, or married couples would claim one was living with a parent!

I suppose we could postpone the wedding til one day after whatever the application date is! But it's a loan not a grant - even if she got the full loan, it still needs to be paid back. And we're happy to support her.

But I think it's shit for families who lose half the loan but their income is tied up in mortgage etc.

OP posts:
lalalalyra · 28/04/2017 00:52

I don't think university grants or loans should be based on parents income.

DS is my step-son and DD's are DH's step-daughters, but that matters not a jot to us, they'll get whatever help we can give. DS's best friend's step-father treats him shockingly bad. There is no way that boy will get the money they'll say his mother and step-father should give him. He's already saying he'll not be able to go to uni because of this. Yet my niece, whose mother is on a very low income, won't have to include her father's massive income because she doesn't live with him, such an arbitrary and unfair system.

PolkadotsAndMoonbeams · 28/04/2017 01:02

They don't take into account how many children the family have at university either.

We all overlapped (and were on courses with high contact hours or placements which do limit the amount of work you can do), so that was fun for our DPs! Luckily I did a year in industry and was paid well for it, and my DSis got a scholarship from her department for doing public engagement work. DB took a gap year so we weren't all there at the same time!

scaryteacher · 28/04/2017 09:37

If the kids are considered 'adult' enough at 18 to take on that amount of debt, then parental income should not be taken into account. Either fund the fees for all, and means test the maintenance loan, or go back to restricting the amount of students who go to university and fund the lot as it used to be done.

On an open day at Exeter, I went to the parent finance presentation, where we were told we would be expected to support our dcs until they were 24!

bigbluebus · 28/04/2017 10:16

Iagree it is a ridiculous system. Why does the non resident parent get off scott free whilst the Step parent is taken into account.

I also don't get the logic behind having to support an adult until they are in their mid 20's potentially. My DD (sadly no longer with us) was disabled. She was technically self financing from the age of 16 as she got DLA and ESA (even though she was at school until 19). My DS, on the other hand, who also has a disability but not anything that qualifies him for benefits, has already had one false start at Uni . He is planning on going back this September so we will be financing him until he is 23/24. One of us (DS or me) will have to get a job to fund him - and as he will be studying, it is likely to be me!

So a Government classes a Young person who can't be independent as an adult at 16, whilst an adult who can be independent has to rely on the bank of Mum and Dad until well into adulthood.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 28/04/2017 10:20

24!!!!

Twenty fucking four!!!!

On what fucking planet!!!!

(I do love my children and would happily keep them here forever)

But seriously 24!!!!

And then you get people on mumsnet saying that we are mollycoddling our children and fucking MPs saying we should look after our aging relatives and look after our bloody adult children!!!!

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 28/04/2017 10:22

Ds1 had to have a minor op at 16

Nhs dr wouldnt talk to us just ds1

Which was fine but dr had a mistake on his form

AND DS AGREED TO A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT OPERATION!!!!!

Allthebestnamesareused · 28/04/2017 10:25

The only thing you are being unreasonable about is the belief that the interest rate on student loans is low!

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 28/04/2017 10:27

God yes all

GetAHaircutCarl · 28/04/2017 10:27

Means testing is causing lots of problems.

So many young people don't get anywhere close to the full loan, the assumption being parents can and will make up the shortfall.

Nonibaloni · 28/04/2017 10:41

Yes, especially because it's a dam loan!

My delightful parents earned enough so that I didn't qualify for a loan. They also didn't give me anything. They also wouldn't sign the form saying they wouldn't give me anything.

Their reasoning was that if id gone to the local uni I wouldn't have needed any money. I didn't get into the local uni.

An unusual situation but there should be more sense applied.

mumeeee · 28/04/2017 10:53

There is a basic rate of maintenance loan that all students get and that is not means tested. If the student needs or wants more then it is means tested.

titchy · 28/04/2017 10:54

And the ultimate irony is the child of the rich, who gets the basic maintenance loan, graduates with a smaller debt than the child of the poor, who gets the maximum maintenance. (And yes I do know the monthly installments are the same regardless....)

I17neednumbers · 28/04/2017 11:09

Whatever you think of meanstesting, the fact is that at 18 a dc is not a dc but an adult - so it does not make sense to take parental income into account. Still, it has always happened - the old maintenance grants were means tested as well. And there were always dparents who couldn't/wouldn't pay up.

If you are going to means test, not taking into account nrp income is theoretically incomprehensible; but in practice when you hear of nrps not being prepared to contribute perhaps it is depressingly realistic.

And yes, pps are correct that the interest rate is not low! That was sort of overlooked at the time the new system was introduced, amongst the focus on 'you don't have to pay it back unless you earn more than x'.

Still, I suppose you have to weigh against that the fact that more people have the opportunity to go to university these days.

mumeeee · 28/04/2017 11:13

Nonboloni. As I said before everyone is entitled to the basic loan however much their parents own. The student just applies for that and you don't have to disclose parents income.
However if you choose to go for more you have to apply for it to be means tested.

scaryteacher · 28/04/2017 11:20

On planet Exeter Rufus That said, we are paying the lot (he is not at Exeter), so no loans for ds. He is in his last term of his BA, and hopefully will do his MA next year, which we will also fund. His PhD is down to him, as dh wants to retire before 60!

I would not touch the current implementation of student loans with a bargepole; at least the old mortgage style loan that I had for my PGCE in 2000/01 made sense and you could see it reducing.

mumeeee · 28/04/2017 11:29

I agree the basic maintenance loan isn't enough to cover everything. We pay most of DD3's rent but can't afford to give her more. We did look at having the loan means tested but from what we could see she would not have got much more and it would just have added to her debt.
She had friends in the first year who did get a lot more than she did but they just spent it all on nothing and quickly went into their overdraft.

App1eCakes · 28/04/2017 11:34

Arrggh, fat finger slippage...

Better to divorce and try to fund them through uni than stay together and be counted on DH's single income. I'm a SAHM but I foresee a return to work to put 2 kids through uni at the same time.

And has anyone mentioned the actual tuition fees yet? Plans for increses got the go ahead in the news today. (That's not covered by the maintenance loan part, is it?)

App1eCakes · 28/04/2017 11:35

^^fat fingers, I thought I was reposting. Sorry Blush

Bluntness100 · 28/04/2017 11:41

I agree with you on this and was quite shocked when i realised it. Many people have parents even if they could afford it would not help their kid and this forces them to work through their degree giving the kids who are supported or get full loans an unfair advantage,

My daughter gets the min and we are happy to support her and the debt she is getting into is big enough, but it makes me uncomfortable the position some folks are put into.

user7214743615 · 28/04/2017 11:46

And has anyone mentioned the actual tuition fees yet?

Tuition fee loans do not depend on parental income and are separate from maintenance loans.

scaryteacher · 28/04/2017 11:50

Bluntness Why is it 'an unfair advantage' if your parents are willing and able to help out? One could argue that those who work are gaining an advantage by having things on their CV, and can demonstrate that they can time mange effectively.

Biker47 · 28/04/2017 11:57

I agree that using other adults earnings in relation to what another adult will get is stupid and illogical, it doesn't happen in any other forms of borrowing.

But I don't agree that everyone should get the maximum UNLESS there's a change to the repayment structure, i.e. you either start paying back more, or you pay back when you start earning a lower salary to make sure it's sustainable.

On that note, fuck knows where Corbyn and his ilk are going to shit out the money to pay for everyone's 4 year piss ups if Labour get into power and repeal tuition fee's.

I don't have kids near university yet, but I do worry that, even though I get a decent wage for what I do and the area I live in, I'm working nearly every day, and by the time uni comes round I'll be quite close to retirement and be wanting to wind down, and may not be able to support kids if they chose to go to a uni further away (if they stay local, they can obviously stay in house for nothing).

And that's another thing, don't the guideline values they give parents about how much they should top up their loan by not take into account multiple children of uni age? So it's all fine assuming someone can afford £400 a month for their child, but still assume £800 for two children is viable :/

Bluntness100 · 28/04/2017 11:58

Bluntness Why is it 'an unfair advantage' if your parents are willing and able to help out? One could argue that those who work are gaining an advantage by having things on their CV, and can demonstrate that they can time mange effectively

But being supported by your parents or having a full maintence loan does not prevent you working. So no there is no unfair advantage there.

The unfair advantage is kids who don't have to work, don't have to work and can dedicate their time to their studies if they so chose or need to. Under this system some do not have that choice and may be struggling with their studies and still have to go and work giving them additional pressure.

My daughter doesn't work, and she studies s huge amount due to the nature of her course, it's a heavy one, and if she also had to work s couple of days a week to support herself it would indeed affect how much time she could study or even relax (as they need this) or engage in uni life.

Nonibaloni · 28/04/2017 11:59

I wasn't saying I couldn't get anything, I was saying that just because your parents are wealthy doesn't mean you are wealthy. The basics paid for a couple months rent I my case.

I worked and gained valuable experience, and lots of my friends with bigger loans worked too. but I was extremely financially insecure which affected my whole life.

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