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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To refuse to sign the new tenancy agreement?

59 replies

mikesh909 · 27/04/2017 00:47

I have an assured short hold tenancy with a private landlord the fixed term of which expired recently. I am in the process of buying a property, so my time living here is coming to a close. Two unfortunate things have happened to complicate this situation. The first was that the end of the tenancy came along a month before my completion date, so I was forced to ask the landlord for a one month extension. He agreed to this. The second was that this property purchase fell through - another has since been agreed but it is back to square one with the paperwork so the one month extension no longer suffices. I thanked the LL for his flexibility in offering this, explained my change of circumstance and requested a rolling contract from now on, subject to the two month notice period my original contract requires.

Today arrived my new contract. It is a 6 month fixed term agreement, with a clause hidden at the back which states I shall pay a re-let levy of £850 if I leave the property before the term expires, which is highly likely. FWIW the property is a highly desirable one bedroom flat in a popular area. Two friends of mine have already expressed interest in taking on the lease when I leave - information which I have previously volunteered to the LL.

I have sought advice from Shelter today. They tell me as my original fixed term agreement has expired, legally what I have is a rolling contract until I sign something new. I am under no obligation to do so. Obviously, if I refuse to do so, the LL could start eviction proceedings if he wanted to. This would be 2 months notice + whatever time the eviction took, could be weeks or months according to Shelter. My estate agent advises a 10-12 week likely timescale for exchange of contracts, but obviously no guarantees can be made.

Would you advise...

a. Telling the LL / agent where to get off, i.e. that the re-let levy clause is a blatant attempt to profit from the uncertainty of my house purchase and refuse to sign the new contract. Suggest rolling contract continues and invite them to start eviction proceedings if that doesn't suit.

b. Stalling for the time being to extend the possible timeframes. [Agent has indicated his intention to collect the contract in person on Friday.... that certainly won't be happening]

c. Signing the contract and saying nothing, with the full intention that the last month's rent is withheld in lieu of a returned deposit, thus leaving them with no means of collecting their £850 re-let levy when I leave before October

d. Simply replying with an explanation that I'm unhappy with the terms of the contract and could they kindly reconsider whether the existing one can continue?

e. Sucking it up, signing the contract, and then contesting the validity of the re-let levy down the line. My deposit is protected and I could refuse to agree to have this deducted and go to court if necessary.

f. Something else?

Please talk me down from A, which the responsible bit of me knows is not the answer!

OP posts:
annielouise · 27/04/2017 10:00

You're now legally on a rolling contract. You don't have to do anything. Do not sign anything. They can't stop on being on a rolling contract after the initial six months contract. They want you on it for their benefit. As someone said upthread, I doubt they'll take legal action as it's cutting their nose off to spite their face - a lot of effort for nothing.

The other thing is you're buying. You can get really shirty about having anyone view the property in your one month's notice period. You don't exactly need a reference from them about what a model tenant you are, do you. If they contact you again just say I'll stick with the rolling contract, thanks. If they say you have to. Say, no I don't and as landlords or landlord representative you know that. If they say well we'll evict you I'd say there's no need for that, I'm paying my rent, it doesn't affect you when I leave, you'll get notice and good luck with it as you won't get me out before my house is ready. And also you can whistle in the wind if you want me to be reasonable with viewings. You hold all the cards.

annielouise · 27/04/2017 10:03

I would not allow viewings in the last month either unless you're a really nice person.

DirtyChaiLatte · 27/04/2017 10:04

I want to reiterate again that this is a very common tactic used by landlords and agents to get into place another contract that is pretty much only for their own benefit.

DirtyChaiLatte · 27/04/2017 10:08

*annielouise

I would not allow viewings in the last month either unless you're a really nice person.*

I totally disagree with this comment

Original poster
mikesh909 · 27/04/2017 11:05

Why does anyone ask for advice on important matters from random people on the internet? You might as well ask strangers on the street. Really, ask a lawyer. And if this were a dental problem, I'd say, ask a dentist.

Thanks for the suggestion Ethylred. You'll see in my OP that I had previously sought advice from Shelter, who are experts in housing law. The advisor outlined my various options, on which the points a-e are based. This post was asking, based on that information, how others would handle the situation.

Thanks to everyone else for the helpful input. You have clarified my understanding of the situation. I don't have to ask to remain on the rolling tenancy, as by doing nothing that happens by default. This is going to be my course of action. I am going to reign in my strong desire to tell them where they can put their contract and instead state that it's not in my interests to sign a new one and refer them to the law (s.5(2) of the Housing Act 1988 if anyone's interested!) which makes provision for me not to do so.

As people have said, many things going in my favour here, chief amongst them that I shall never need to call on him for a reference. Now, all that remains is whether to let his fat-faced agent huff and puff up the stairs tomorrow afternoon and hand him back his unsigned contract in person, or whether to email before then and advise that he might as well not bother...

OP posts:
tygr · 27/04/2017 11:38

Happened to me. My landlady tried to evict me whilst I was in the process of house hunting to buy. On a rolling contract. She threatened taking me to court. My solicitor advised me to stay put as she'd need a court order to get me out. Solicitor negotiated with her to hold off court proceedings on the basis that I would complete ASAP.

Whole thing was horribly stressful. In your position I wouldn't sign anything.

CotswoldStrife · 27/04/2017 11:49

D would be the best option, because if this property purchase falls through as well you'll be in a bad situation!

The LL has been accommodating so far, they were expecting to have re-let the property by now so I think you could be a bit more understanding tbh.

If you sign another AST, you'll be liable for the rent over the whole period if you leave so the re-let fee breaks that (I'm guessing it's about a month's rent).

Blissx · 27/04/2017 11:51

fat-faced agent

Nice OP.

InfiniteSheldon · 27/04/2017 11:53

Wow

Original poster
mikesh909 · 27/04/2017 12:04

Yeh I'm not a fan of agents of any description, existing as they do solely to make life more expensive for other people, and especially not those who treat me like an idiot and then invite themselves to my home in the attempt to pressurise me into signing a highly unfair contract. But you're right, his face is the least of my concerns. It's actually his highly exploitative, money grabbing scumbaggery that is the problem. I stand corrected.

OP posts:
CotswoldStrife · 27/04/2017 12:08

Not doing yourself any favours at all here, OP.

AyeAmarok · 27/04/2017 12:10

Oh give her a break.

Allthebestnamesareused · 27/04/2017 13:22

As a LL myself (yes I know an MN nono!) I think the LL would be mad to try to force you to sign the new AST.

I always let any decent tenant just go on to a rolling contract after the fixed term if they want or have a new AST which I don't charge extra for. He knows you were going to be leaving so he is mentally prepared for when you do give actual notice.

I would just say as exchange is imminent I'll just stay on a rolling contract but will give notice as soon as I have a completion date and offer to be willing to let prospective tenants view the property during the notice period (which actually you don't have to do legally). That way he is less likely to have any voids.

specialsubject · 27/04/2017 13:26

Also a bastard landlord here. Tenant coming to end of first term and agent HQ tells me the only choices are evict or sign another fixed term.

Nah. Theres also the rolling tenancy. No intention of eviction so will let tenant choose.

Original poster
mikesh909 · 27/04/2017 13:42

Good to hear from some LLs. If a 'decent tenant' is one who doesn't damage anything, has made no unreasonable maintenance demands and has never missed a rent payment, then that is me. In addition, I have offered to provide two separate contacts for parties interested in taking on the property after my departure and would have no objection in facilitating viewings should neither of those come good.

specialistsubject, I wish you were my bastard landlord and I can only hope mine sees sense like you apparently would.

OP posts:
beautifulgirls · 27/04/2017 14:11

Just remember to start and follow through with legal proceedings it will cost the LL money that he wont want to spend. Whilst you are paying rent on time and prepared to give sensible notice to him he is onto a good thing. The issue only comes for him if you leave and owe him money for any reason or if he can not relet the property quickly which both sound pretty unlikely to be a problem from your previous posts. I would email the agent and suggest you carry on as a model tenant without signing the new agreement so the LL can continue without additional expense and the comfort of knowing you will give suitable notice that will enable him to easily sort things. If the agent or LL become pushy then it may be worth pointing out how you could become a less than model tenant in the time left!

Okkitokkiunga · 27/04/2017 14:46

Yet another LL weighing in. Are you absolutely sure that the LL is fully aware of the terms of the new contract? I've just sacked our agents for being money grabbers. Our tenants are on statutory periodic, one of the reasons being that it saves both of us money as don't have to pay for renewals.

Sorry if I've missed it, but I would contact LL directly - after all you're still paying your rent and regardless of when you leave he is still going to have to advertise etc.

Good luck with the move.

specialsubject · 27/04/2017 16:40

Thanks, op! While I like to do things right, it is also a business decision. From the landlord side there is no reason not to go on to a rolling tenancy. As I am in not London the agent fee is a weeks rent, and when tenant fees are outlawed it will double.

To be open about it, a rolling tenancy means I can issue a sec 21 at any time and raise the rent at any time. But with a decent tenant ( as now) there is no reason to do either. This is not London and over priced properties stay empty, and empty properties cost.

And with a bad tenant (been there, the full triple threat) the rent stops when the sec 21 is issued and it is months to the bailiff.

DalaHorse · 27/04/2017 16:53

Have you checked if the landlord can give you notice though on this rolling notice basis? If so, and you don't sign, could he do that?

nocake · 27/04/2017 18:03

Another one saying don't sign it. It will cost your LL to evict you so while you're paying rent he/she would be nuts to do it. If they do evict it will take several months to get you out.

Gallavich · 27/04/2017 18:07

Don't sign. Politely respond in writing stating that you do not intend to stay for 6 months and you will serve them a full calendar month notice when you are ready to vacate the property as per the legal requirements of your periodic tenancy agreement.

Gallavich · 27/04/2017 18:09

Dalahorse the landlord can give 2 calendar months' notice but that doesn't mean the op has to actually vacate at the end of the notice period.

OP you know full well the landlord won't take legal action. It would be an expensive and pointless waste of time since you would be voluntarily out well before they obtained an eviction notice.

Fragglez · 27/04/2017 18:10

Haven't rtft but i would be incluned to d, thus achieving b. If and when backed into a corner go for a - hopefully this will be all the time you will need.

If completely ignoring it is a legal option that would be best, obviously.

expatinscotland · 27/04/2017 18:14

I wouldn't sign a thing.

TreeTop7 · 27/04/2017 18:20

Don't sign. Stay put. Keep paying. Nothing will happen.

Good luck with the purchase.

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