To not understand how these people still believe in God

[Deskboundsally]

ITV news just now reporting on the drought in Somalia. Children dying from starvation, cholera and dehydration. One woman who has lost 7 children. Another woman with a baby in a ramshackle hospital bed, literally skin and bones. The worst drought in 100 years and still they believe Allah will come and help them.

How? How do people have that kind of faith? In the face of dying children, dead crops and cattle and presumably god/allah whomever could just make it rain....how do they still believe that he's going to intervene or even that he's actually real?

Is it some extreme brainwashing that you can only see if you're on the outside? I genuinely do not get it.

Thanks Mellast - saying all the things I wanted to say only much more eloquently

people of faith, unfortunately, constantly push their religion on others. Exhibit A: faith schools, and the role of the CofE in this country.
Why are they, faith schools usually have children of that faith going to them so they're hardly pushing it on others.

Why are they, faith schools usually have children of that faith going to them so they're hardly pushing it on others.

Our set up has the CofE dictating admission rules and curriculum in state schools. This happens in faith schools, and with the ridiculous "act of worship" at state schools.

The simple existence of faith schools, which take up 1/3 of the school system, make it much more difficult for those without faith to find state schools.

They are if there aren't any other schools other than faith schools in the local area.

Also children of faith is such a horrible phrase. These are kids who are not old enough to make a rational decision as to which religion (or none) they believe in - just ones whose parents happen to follow that religion. Now instead of getting a more balanced view on religion, they get told what to believe at school as well as at home.

Ireland had its own wheat, oats, barley etc during the potatoe famine, the English wouldn't let them have it, it was shipped to England.The English could easily have prevented the Irish from starving. They didn't want to.

.The English could easily have prevented the Irish from starving. They didn't want to.

So, that's a case where will was in fact the cause of evil. Who here said that was impossible? In fact, free will is often the cause of evil deeds. The point, however, is that it doesn't explain all the bad things in the world.

stop being ignorant and stop watching itv news

I am not sure about other faiths but the Bible makes it very clear that if you chose to follow Jesus and be a Christian you should actually expect suffering, hardship, persecution etc and there is certainly no promise we will be spared any of this. What Christians believe is that God gives you the strength needed to get through these situations and if the worst happens and you are crucified/stoned/tortured to death, then you will spend eternity with Christ in heaven which is what all Christians are waiting for anyway. A very large number of Christians live in daily fear of death or imprisionment because of their beliefs......this does not reduce the number of Christians but seems to make the churches in these countries grow far quicker than in the West. Many many more Christians may not be persecuted but do not know where their next meal is coming from and see their children die of starvation but Christianity flourishes and grows in these countries too . I think people who cannot understand this are not understanding faith or Christianity, Jesus is our model. He was poor, homeless, hated and lied about and eventually was killed and he tells Christians to take up their cross and follow Him. Suffering is often part of that journey.

People have seized onto what I've said about free will (I'm so bored of typing that) as if I'm offering it as the only explanation or answer to absolutely every one of the questions in the world.

mellast you triumphantly hurl at me 'who willed the potato famine into existence then' - take a moment to calm down and re-read what I said to you before. I DONT KNOW why god allows cancer, or doesn't put a river in Africa, or whatever. I'm NOT CLAIMING to have the answer to everything. I do not state that free will is the explanation for everything.

I said initially that God had provided enough food, he had also provided people with choice, we are choosing not to share that food equally. Then people have asked and asked and asked about free will until it has become the only thing possible to discuss.

Finally, we absolutely did have the technology to move food between England and Ireland 100 years ago. Just unfortunately most of it was going the wrong way.

And hope may not get things done just by hoping. But it brightens people's lives in the most horrific of circumstances and I don't understand why you need to say BUT ITS NOT RATIONAL - I can only hope (ha) you would be more compassionate in real life.

I hope if I leave this here people can move on with the discussion without leaping in at every other sensible point raised shouting HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT WITH YOUR FREE WILL BOLLOCKS, because I'm fucking bored of it so I'm sure the rest of you must be.

Peace and love

you triumphantly hurl at me 'who willed the potato famine into existence then' - take a moment to calm down and re-read what I said to you before. I DONT KNOW why god allows cancer, or doesn't put a river in Africa, or whatever. I'm NOT CLAIMING to have the answer to everything. I do not state that free will is the explanation for everything.

I am quite calm.

I read what you wrote. I know you said you didn't know why we have cancer. I then, however, asked how you square cancer with all knowing, loving, and powerful god. Perhaps you don't think god has those properties, I don't know, or perhaps you don't know how to square those things. In any case, I read your response and asked you another question.

I agree that free will is boring, and I also think it is a weak explanation for god. But I didn't introduce it.

I think people who cannot understand this are not understanding faith or Christianity, Jesus is our model. He was poor, homeless, hated and lied about and eventually was killed and he tells Christians to take up their cross and follow Him. Suffering is often part of that journey.

He was god incarnate, right? All that happened to him was his choice. You can't compare the suffering of a deity who chose to experience being human to an actual human. (Assuming you believe in god and that Jesus was the son. Which if you don't makes the whole 'suffer as Jesus did to get to heaven' thing utterly pointless.)

You know that line said to have been found in one of the concentration camps, "if there is a god, he will have to beg my forgiveness"? That's what I think of when I hear the arguments that suffering is some sort of holy path. There's no god but if there was it could kiss my arse. Nothing will ever convince me that it is OK to allow such hideous suffering if you could prevent it.

Believe what you like and may it bring you joy. If religion gets you through the tough times, even the worst times, I'm glad for you. I'm not going to pretend I understand it and I certainly won't pretend that the excuses (free will so not all powerful god's fault, suffering brings you to god because Jesus suffered, etc) inspire any sort of respect.

Well if we are to believe in God then we believe in eternal life then the suffering we do while we are here is just like a moment in time. Maybe we've all had several lives and have all had similar degrees of suffering, maybe more or maybe less depending which life it was.

Being hungry, properly hungry, it really hurts. Dying slowly of AIDS without proper medical care really hurts. Watching your children die, one after another, and being unable to help them - I don't even begin to think how that feels.

If it's a "moment in time" it's a bloody long moment and so, so pointless. Suffering v rarely enables anyone, mostly it just breaks you.