AIBU about Parental Responsibility?!

[KentMum2008]

This is a long one...
Here's the back story: I left ex 5 years ago. He was mentally, physically and financially abusive, and generally a class A dickhead. We have 2 DCs, now aged 10 and 8. He pays regular maintenance and buys things for the children (overly elaborate Christmas/birthday gifts) but shows no interest in seeing the children or in having any say in their education, welfare or general upbringing. I used to take them an hour on the train to see him every other weekend. They would see him at work for around half an hour, he gives them some pocket money and we go on our way. To me, this isn't meaningful contact, but it's all they could get because his days off are spent playing Xbox, drinking and smoking weed with his friends (they are all in their 30's and single, surprisingly)

Recently DCs have become less and less interested in going to see him, so it's now more like once a month. He has decided this is me 'refusing to allow him access' and obviously kicks up a stink about it, but still makes no attempt to come and see them.

I met a wonderful man a few years ago, we live together, we're getting married this year and in every way other than biologically, he is a parent to my DCs. He does school runs when I'm at work, helps with their homework, shows an interest in their education, health and wellbeing. Despite saying for the whole of his life that he didn't want children, he has wholeheartedly embraced the step parent role and he's bloody good at it. If I sound like I'm gushing, it's because I am. I do get a bit teary eyed sometimes when I see DP playing lego with DS or reading DDs latest science magazine with her. His parents are fantastic, they dote on DCs too, and treat them exactly the same as their biological grandchildren.

Here is my AIBU. Even once we are married, DP will have no parental rights whatsoever. I asked their dad if he would consider agreeing to a legal Step Parental responsibility order. This takes no rights away from him, and his rights as a biological parent will always trump DP's. Not that it will ever be an issue because he literally doesn't give a shit about anything. Obviously he said no, because he's an utter twat. They're HIS children, and no man will ever replace him blah blah blah. And while that is true, the point of this isn't about replacing him, it's about allowing my husband the same legal rights as me with regards to DCs upbringing. God forbid, if we were in an accident and I was unconscious, DP wouldnt be able to consent to medical treatment for them and they'd have to wait until they could get hold of their dad. Which is tricky because he NEVER answers his phone. While I accept this is an unlikely scenario, it's just an example. It also means that, if something were to happen to me, their dad could take them to live with him, and DP and the rest of our families would have no legal right to see them ever again.
So AIBU in asking him to allow DP to have PR?
Any experiences of this? Anyone been on the other end and refused PR to a step parent? I'm fairly certain that if we were to go to court about it, they would grant PR to DP once we're married without ex's consent, due to his lack of any fucking interest whatsoever. They will always act in the child's best interests and anyone with even half a brain can see what would be best for my DCs. If you were to ask them both about their family, their dad wouldn't even get a mention. They don't even speak about him or ask to see him. But I don't want it to have to come to that. It's a long and expensive process, and while it's fine as a last resort, I just don't see why it has to be that way. It's ex's last ditch attempt at trying to control our lives, and I'm not having it!

That was longer than I expected....

If no contact had been had for 7 years + then you do not need his permission BUT because your ex has had sporadic contact then courts will probably not allow it unless he agrees.

We were in similar position and my ex had no PR for DS as he was born in 99 before it was automatically given. We were told that despite no PR that even if I had died my EX would get first refusal of guardianship as he had seen him. We were also told as other had said that in reality my DH didn't need PR because a letter from me to GP's would ensure that he could take them at anytime and also school would allow DH to go in my absence. Any emergency the medical practitioners would do what was necessary regardless of PR.

You could take your chances before a judge but we were quoted several thousand if my ex contested and we knew he would.

DS is now nearly 18 and it has never been a problem tbf and even f something happened to me know DS would stay with my DH rather than his dad.

Also wills can take into account your feelings but if your ex contested it then they are still likely to give your DC's to your ex - sorry

FWIW - by the age of 12 the courts would take your DC's wishes into account

Like what? What will he need to do that requires PR that he can't do? If you want the court to give him PR you'll need to clearly say why he needs it.

Plenty of people manage to be full involved step parents without needing PR. All the consent things can be handled by the biological parent because they are non urgent.

The court won't be remotely interested in "recognition" for him. That's not what being a parent or a step parent is about.

I disagree that the ex would be likely to get the children.

If you've got a drug addicted biological parent who has shown little to no interest and knows nothing about their routine or care and a healthy step parent who has been fully involved in the day to day care, who is able to house the children, knows their routine, wouldn't require change of schools, activities, friends, families and is willing to accommodate the same level of contact the children have enjoyed with the ex and the children would be able to articulate why they would rather stay with step dad than bio dad then step dad is going to have a really strong case.

Sorry op that link is £240 plus the court free of £215 I misunderstood. It's not difficult to do yourself at all which is why I thought £25 was cheap but not unbelievably so.

I did look at that and think £25 for solicitors fee was cheap! Sadly, it's only that cheap if ex doesn't contest it. Which he will. But he's also refusing to give me his address to send any paperwork to, which isn't going to look good for him really. The only way we can contact him is by text, he never answers his phone, not even to speak to the children. He messages DS on the Xbox occasionally, which he assures me is 'meaningful contact' but he's not seen them since December, and before that it was once in the summer hols for about an hour. He says he has witnesses who will agree that I refuse contact, but by witnesses, he means his brothers, and by refuse contact he means the time he turned up pissed and high a week after I kicked him out and demanded to see the children and I told him to get lost.

Every text I've sent today regarding the situation is responded to with 'Fathers for Justice bitch, my kids and no cunt is taking them away' or 'No fixed address mate' or 'how deep are your pockets slut, I'll fight you all the way'
There really is no hope for him, he's just the saddest, most delusional little scrote.

Make sure you keep those texts!

All backed up to the cloud Alicetown

Just spoke to a very nice lady from Co-Op legal who has assured me that if a judge thinks ex is saying no just out of spite, they'll rule against him. We just have to write a statement detailing the ways in which DP is involved with their daily upbringing etc, and also if we're worried about ex acting like a twat if something should happen to me, they can add a Child something something order (can't quite remember what she said) in at the same time that states my wishes must be followed in the event of my death.
The initial court fee is £215 and their fee is £240 but after that, we don't need to have solicitors involved at all so total cost should be £455. Totally worth it for peace of mind.

Obviously not knowing your ex I couldn't speak for his temperament so this might be way off piste and never work but how many times have you mentioned this to him? It might be worth a few tries.
I have some very hard headed Alpha type male relatives and friends, not abusive at all but just have very set ideas on the world and what it is to be a man blah blah blah, there is a certain amount of picking your fights with these people, I'm not one to roll over and let them treat me like a doormat but there are ways and ways of getting what you want sometimes without having to be too drastic.
I have one male relative in particular who is very stubborn and awkward just for the sake of being awkward sometimes, sometimes with him you need to present the idea to him wait for him to explode and calm down then revisit it when he has some time to let it sink in and is possibly in a better frame of mind. E.g. I never ask anything when he has just finished work because he can't be arsed and gets irritable, much more likely to get a good response after a nice chilled day at the football etc depends on the person.
Obviously if your ex has been abusive then this might not be something you want to deal with, which is more than fair enough I don't blame you.
I was just thinking if you want to avoid the courts it might be worth letting the idea settle for a while and let him get used to it a bit and then revisiting it with a rational reasoned argument, like you said in your worst case scenario, wouldn't he want your children to have immediate decisions made about medical care. He may not get involved with your kids as much but I imagine he still wants them healthy and safe, make it about the children not about his failings as a parent.
My husband is in no way abusive but he has a very difficult personality, if we argue I have to come at him with a reasoned logical argument or he just ignores me, there is no room for irrational outbursts in his very organised little world, I have literally sat down and written my response to him on occasion, it not a fight it's a business meeting!!! It's done wonders for my critical thinking but god help him when we have children......
Good luck x

Frosty ex is very much like that, but it's been mentioned a few times and he still hasn't budged on the situation. However, he's just text to say he's been seeing someone since Christmas, it's 'serious' now and he'd like the children to meet her. He was fully waiting for me to say no, but because I'm not a total bitch I've said yes. I'm not overly keen on the idea of him suddenly wanting to be doting daddy to impress this woman or score points. But if we meet her (he suggested me and DP going with the kids to meet him and new gf) and she seems like a rational sort of woman, I might present the idea again when she's there. If it's serious between them and he values her opinion, maybe she can talk some sense into him. I'm not holding out huge amounts of hope, but it's worth a shot!

If she seems rational and sane as far as you can tell then I would say take full advantage of the situation. You might think he is just showing off for her but if your kids get more time with their father out of it and they are benefiting from it then it can only be a good thing for them.
You are backed into a corner an a way because if you say no then he will probably say you are being hypocritical blah blah, the best way to be fully informed is to take him up on the suggestion that both couples meet with the kids.
You get a firsthand look at the new woman rather than what the kids might pass along as secondhand information etc, plus you can suss it out for yourself re his attitude, her personality. If he is being a massive try hard then propose the point again, he won't want to look like a massive dick in front of the girlfriend or at least be forced to argue his point rationally. She may very well be nervous and try too hard as well but at the same time remember whatever she has heard about you has come from your (slightly deranged sounding) ex who is her new boyfriend so you have to have a little sympathy for the poor thing.
At least you will have your very wonderful sounding partner along with you for back up, I would advise against him being too full on with the kids infront of ex though as he will see that as a threat to his fatherhood. My father despised my stepfather (for no good reason I may add) and my stepfather was very careful to respect boundaries in his presence and now whilst they won't ever be having sleepovers and braiding each other's hair they were perfectly pleasant to each other at my wedding and other family events.
X

I'm not against the idea of DCs having more time with their dad, what I am against is it all being for show and then when the novelty has worn off him starting to make excuses as to why he can't see them. He has form for this, which was why I used to take the DCs to him, because if I made the effort he wouldn't have an excuse.

I'll get the measure of the new girlfriend and decide what to do from there. I'm a fairly good judge of character (although I didn't as a naive 14 year old meeting 18 year old ex for the first time, I thought he was a real life proper man!)

Yeah that would be a dick move, don't worry we all did stupid stuff at 14!! X

He's obviously in full dick mode today, a few years back he bought me a new bed and a new table and chairs for the kitchen to replace the ones he smashed to pieces in the front garden the day I told him he had to leave (he took/smashed basically everything except the children's things) He has now just text to say he wants the money back for them so he'll be stopping maintenance payements for the next 10 weeks! He's such a lovely guy

Also wills can take into account your feelings but if your ex contested it then they are still likely to give your DC's to your ex - sorry

Tired sorry for the slight derail but do you know if that would still be the case if the biological dads contact had been stopped by children's services themselves?

what a dick mango

do u do it privately -go through the cms he wont b ablee to stop paymnts that way

I'm in the same situation, left abusive husband 4 years ago.
He pays £65 a month if that. Hasn't seen ds since apart from one occasion even though I have practically begged him to be a part of his life.
Have a partner & ds with him and he's raised ds1 since he was one.
Only difference is I'm still not divorced can't afford it and he won't divorce me.
So stuck!

He's obviously in full dick mode today, a few years back he bought me a new bed and a new table and chairs for the kitchen to replace the ones he smashed to pieces in the front garden the day I told him he had to leave (he took/smashed basically everything except the children's things) He has now just text to say he wants the money back for them so he'll be stopping maintenance payements for the next 10 weeks

To which I would reply that I will not be driving the DC to see him and any further contact will need to be initiated by him and he will need to do the travelling. Don't give into this twat any further.

YANBU. Go ahead and apply, your DP is more of a father to your DC than their biological father. Just do it.

Siwdmae I don't even drive, I was taking them on the train every Sat, an hour each way!
I text Ex last night to say that we needed to come to a formal arrangement about the children, that he can have them every Sunday but they need to be home by 7 and I'm not taking them to him, he's got to come here. He said ok he'll be here Sunday. But he's said that the last dozen or so times I've suggested it, so we'll see if it happens!

Yanbu, but going through the court process can be strange for the children, especially when their father is likely to contest the case, and the judge will probably be very interested in their views. Is it something they want? Obviously if you just go and ask them they'll probably say yes because it's you asking them, so that can be hard to work out. A social worker would most likely come and see them and if they're able to they may write a letter to the judge, which you won't be able to see.

As far as I'm aware, they only tend to involve a social worker if it's for full adoption, which isn't what we want. I don't want to take anything away from ex, not that he deserves it, but I wouldn't dream of totally writing him out of their lives. Sadly, he's already doing that himself. DD is 10, and very intelligent. If she's given the opportunity to have a say on the matter, I'm confident she'll feel happy enough to speak her mind. DS I'm less sure about, because I think he does still miss his dad, he was too little to really know what was going on when ex still lived with us. But DD remembers, and she knows well enough that her dad doesn't bother. Like I said, she's very clever and she's seen for herself that he doesn't make an effort.

Make sure you do your wills appointing stepdad as guardian if you die. Write an accompanying letter explaining why dc should live with stepdad not dad notwithstanding dad has pr (i.e. continuity, exes awful behaviour document it, list out examples of fuckwittedness shouldn't be hard). Your Dh would then at least have a chance of persuading a judge kids should stay with him. Also men like this (weed smoking absent fathers) rarely have the means or inclination to go to court.

Money isn't a problem for ex KERALA but I do actually wonder if he would turn up for a court hearing. History says he won't, but he could surprise us. The solicitor said that while applying for PR, we can also include something else that says the children must stay with DP in the event of my death.
I must come across as really morbid, constantly talking about death, but I lost my dear darling dad early last year, after a really short and horrible battle with cancer, and the naive little 'everything will always be fine' bubble I lived in was abruptly burst. None of us know what's around the corner, and while you can't spend your whole life thinking the worst is about to happen, you also can't be oblivious to the fact it can and does. I was for the whole of my life and losing Ddad messed me up big time.

No advice op but wanted to say although you have this awkward unpleasant situation on your hands it sounds like you have had a really tough time with your ex, it must be soul destroying to see their df behave like that. Wonderful that you have this amazing man in your and their lives now i hope you get what you need via court or wherever it sounds like you all deserve it.