AIBU to want to sue marie stopes?

[dogsdoodars]

This is a bit of a long one. But basically i found out i was pregnant with baby #4 in January this year. We already have 3 under 5 but we decided we would manage, that is until i was around 8 weeks and i was suffering with severe Hyperemsis Gravidum (uncontrollable vomiting) i was so so ill and was struggling to care for our other children and even get out of bed. So we made the decision sadly to terminate the pregnancy. I was too ashamed to go to our GP so my partner phoned Marie Stopes and organised the termination. They booked me in for surgical termination on March 10th using suction under heavy sedation.
I attended the clinic at 10;30 am and was rushed in for a quick ultrasound scan to confirm i was 11+1 weeks i also had a finger prick type blood spot test to check blood type then i was asked about contraception and i decided on the IUD to be fitted at the same time . Ten minutes later i was sat in a busy waiting room with blaring loud music and tacky magazines to read which felt like i was queuing for a spray tan. Women were going in one after the other within minutes like a conveyor belt. i was then called through and told to undress and lay on the operating table. I was at this point highly distressed and crying my eyes out because of how awful it was and because i wasnt 100% sure of my decision. The doctor inserted a canula then injected a sedative in my arm before i even had chance to ask any questions or change my mind, it all went black. I then woke up to two nurses telling me it was complete and i had to walk into another busy room full of other women clearly just aborted their babies. i sat on a chair for 5 mins until i didnt feel dizzy then the nurse told me to go in the bathroom to get dressed and have a wee. another 5 mins passed and they discharged me with an antibiotic to take home. i was sobbing my eyes out in the waiting room and no one asked if i was ok or offered any counselling. I then went home to my children and partner and spend all weekend crying and in quite a lot of pain.
4 days later i was sat in my GP surgery in incredible pain and crying my eyes out. i was sent to hospital to be checked over. I ended up being kept in. They decided my coil had been inserted wrong at Marie Stopes and this had given me a severe infection in my womb so i was put on strong antibiotics then discharged several days later. i continued to deteriorate and still had very high HCG in my blood so i was readmitted and this time they scanned me to discover i had retained products in my womb and a shadow on my ovary. I was rushed to theater with a suspected Hetero topic pregnancy (ectopic as well as a normal pregnancy developing) they removed it and also cleaned out my womb. i was discharged a few days later.
My HCG continued to persist but was gradually declining. On the 12th April it was still 17.5 but they discharged me from the consultant. i also got the results back from the lab of the 'retained products' and the consultant informed me it was in fact parts of my baby still left inside me from the abortion!
. I then started to bleed on april 5th and EPU told me it was my first AF returning. it has now been 2.5 weeks and still bleeding very heavily. on friday morning i passed a large smelly piece of liver-like tissue along with strong cramps and pressure. My gp took one look and said it definitely was placenta! i am being referred for a scan on monday to check if there is anymore remaining but hes astounded that there can be any products left after 2 womb cleaning procedures.
i am distraught after this whole experience and totally regretting it. i have sleepless nights and nightmares and im incredibly anxious in general. i feel very down and low. my partner wants to sue marie stopes for how they treated me and have mentally and physically scarred me. i am 50/50 about this because a few people have said we ABU to think about making a claim.
what do people think? i know it wont probably make me feel any better but if i can stop other women going through this awful experience then thats a plus in my eyes

I dont think suing is the answer here. Definitely lodge a complaint and ask to see a copy of your scan report - if there was a co existing ectopic it should have been picked up on scan, especially if your pregnancy was 11+ weeks. Unfortunately retained products are a recognised complication of terminations and the consent form you signed would have reflected this. I think the best you can do is a complaint letter stating how traumatic the whole experience has been.

You have had a terrible time - I thing sueing will bring little closure and keep a horrible experience at the front of your mind.unfortunately no operation is without risks and these will have been explained in the literature and covered by the consent form. Sadly some people do suffer these complications.
Try and get some counselling, you are blessed with your family and I'm sure once you are feeling physically better things will improve .

Op, so sorry about your experience . Please don't feel bad because of some of the comments on here.

I think what you're looking for is closure. Have you spoken to your GP about getting counselling? I found in the past speaking to a counsellor really helped because I was able to say things I couldn't to anyone else simply because I was speaking to someone I didn't know.

Please don't be afraid to speak to your GP about counselling, you have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, however you are clearly projecting the shame and sorrow you already felt onto the clinic. I'm not sure why you'd expect a receptionist to be medically trained to take a booking, and what on earth do the music and magazines have to do with medical competence? I should imagine that's a decision they've made on purpose as it's a difficult experience for everyone who goes there and many people might well feel they need a distraction. Retained products is a risk of abortion anywhere and is highlighted in the paperwork you need to sign.

You sueing an already underfunded service will not help other women at all and while I'm so sorry you are upset, there really isn't a case to answer here.

I am so so sorry for your loss, I feel like crying for you, this is wholly terrible. From miscarriages the liver looking stuff is placenta.

I'm shocked they gave you no warning, no support, a botched procedure, a conveyor belt approach for something that was a very intimate and distressing time.

I would guess that so soon MS would say oh it's the emotional impact. So I would suggest you write as much as you can down, from initial examination/consult with them, till the end.

It sounds strongly as if you were having doubts, but seeing as this would hold up the conveyor belt, they rushed ahead without properly consulting you. If you can recall, I know emotionally this will be painful, but jot down had scan, had prick test, were you consulted after the scan if you intended to proceed? How long a gap was there between scan and sedation?

A relative had an abortion that would be determined an ERPC, the scans were first to confirm dates, then a further one before procedure, the day before I think. To go over pre-op, counselling and so forth. So I believe from what I vaguely know there were time steps that allowed you to say, hang on I'm not sure.

Note that you were in distress. Note everything you can after, retained products, infection from IUD plus ectopic pregnancy which could have been life threatening. Obtain clinical notes from the hospital to support all this.

Then when it's not as raw, as I fear you may still require further intervention, although I was told by scan everything was passed, but I continued to pass the liver like stuff for 2 weeks, at 3 weeks the baby was passed. So please feel free to say you know someone who was told all was clear, but continued to pass the liver like stuff, with heavy, painful bleeding. What do they suggest? What are your HCG levels now?

I'm really sorry you're having to go through this.

I honestly feel sickened by the way you were treated by MS.

It's not about taking money from an over stretched service. If they cannot properly look after a vulnerable woman at a vulnerable point in her life, with very little if any support over, oh yeah you're hyperemesis is a bitch get rid. They deserve every penny they lose.

I don't know if you took the liberty of reading that they placed the IUD incorrectly, they left products inside this poor woman AND she had an ectopic that it's reasonable to suggest that with the pain and bleeding she would have dismissed any symptoms of the ectopic, ultimately with devastating effects for both OP & her family.

Yes I'm being catastrophic as I was accused of in another post, but I've also had a blown ectopic, I know consultants said that it is a very serious issue. I won't say how serious as I don't want to upset OP. But it was a lazy over sight by a company who surely had a sonographer that should have noticed the ectopic. I've paid for cheapy scans that are all the rage, even they noted cysts on my ovaries and PCOS.

This doesn't help you, OP, but if it helps a reader, I'll be glad I posted. This experience is worlds away from my NHS termination experience. Literally worlds. I had a medical termination (the tablets), which led to an incomplete abortion (retained products of conception - like OP), I bled heavily for days, almost died. Took myself to A&E and was admitted for a D&C under general anaesthetic. The whole time (both times) I was treated, I felt respected and cared for. And I didn't pay a penny for my treatment.

My point is that even when there are complications, the OP's experience is not the default. Don't let it put anyone off having a termination if that's the decision that is right for them.

As someone who has taken legal action for issues surrounding consent and medical negligence may I say how sorry I am for what you have endured? You need to focus on getting well. See your GP and get some counselling and do whatever you need to do to get physically strong again.

It is incredibly hard to go through the legal process and it takes years. As stated above you need to demonstrate a financial loss in order to achieve any meaningful compensation. However, it may be worth, later, asking for copies of your records and making a complaint through the GMC if you feel any doctors who undertook your care did so without meeting their GMC requirements. Consent is far more than getting someone to sign a piece of paper whilst already in theatre.

You have five years in which to make a complaint to the gmc so for now I urge you to concentrate on your recovery.

Can I add a further addendum, there are clear guidelines that should be followed. I was of the belief that MS provide before, during and aftercare.

Where was this when you have a clearly traumatised woman.

Fair enough retained products and infection are a risk, I would say failure to correctly place an IUD and failing to diagnose an ectopic was a failure. Along with the whole experience, is it just me but isn't having a scan then quickly being sedated whilst distressed a sign that the woman should have been consulted that she was sure she wanted to go ahead.

Do you really believe that MS, funded as they are, should provide more than a bare bones service.

Soon there'll be an idiot blaming OP for getting pregnant next.

The results of this botched job could have future implications, which I know many won't be empathetic of seeing as OP has several DC. But I feel they really have let her down in a multitude of ways. I feel both upset and angry for OP.

Personally I'm against abortions myself, I would never judge another woman who makes such a decision, it leaves me worrying how many other women have had to go through the same. Abandoned during a horrific time in their life. Left with so many questions.

Something needs to be done. It isn't right that OP has had to go through this.

Fairy

*The results of this botched job could have future implications, which I know many won't be empathetic of seeing as OP has several DC. But I feel they really have let her down in a multitude of ways. I feel both upset and angry for OP.

Personally I'm against abortions myself, I would never judge another woman who makes such a decision, it leaves me worrying how many other women have had to go through the same. Abandoned during a horrific time in their life. Left with so many questions.

Something needs to be done. It isn't right that OP has had to go through this.*

Yes, I agree with pretty much everything you just vote..

Apologies to OP for ranting but I can't believe that people are saying you shouldn't sue an overstretched service, you are grieving and putting the onus on them.

Do you have to pay for MS services?

MS are not the only org who provide termination services, BPAS is also an option - depending on your local arrangements.
With BPAS you are asked when you first call if you think you may need counselling, you are asked again when you go for your assessment/scan with a nurse, and again before/after the procedure itself.
The risks are explained multiple times, at least 3 separate occasions, and plenty of opportunities to change your mind about IUD or termination, or both, even when you're on the table.
The complications you've suffered are horrible, and I'm so sorry you've had to go through all that. I don't think suing, specifically, would change any of that, but a formal complaint asking them to review their procedures may be helpful to others. They should be able to provide you with counselling, even after the event, which would be quicker than trying to access through the GP, which may be helpful for you.
I hope that you can come to terms with events, and move forward xxxx

That's only one reason she shouldn't sue.

You have been through a horrific experience and you sound incredibly traumatised and fragile.
I don't think 'suing' will bring you any sort of closure and I would be particularly wary of your husband pushing you down this road.

However I WOULD ask for a meeting with the clinic. Take someone with you and ask to see your notes. Make a list if questions that you want answers to. If you feel that gives you some closure, that's great. If you feel that there are things that definitely need addressing, make a formal complaint.
But before you do any of that, be kind to yourself. Let your body heal and ask for help in the form of counselling if you don't start to feel better soon.

Medical negligence cases drag on for years. If you are intent on suing, please see a reputable lawyer first (not some no-win, no-fee lot who advertise on daytime tv) to ascertain if you have a case. However, be prepared for the insurers (for Marie Stopes - and the NHS? - are you suing them as well?) to demand access to all your medical records and probably further medical examinations by insurance appointed consultants. You will have to give a detailed statement of all the events and months after you think you are done with this, insurers will come back with further clarifications or queries about tiny inconsistencies.

In the meantime, you don't get to move on properly. I think you would be far better advised to make a complaint and also seek some counselling to help you recover from what has obviously been a very traumatic experience.

I wouldn't sue MS no, unless you plan on suing the NHS as well.
There is always a risk of retained products when having any termination, be it surgical or medical. It's a risk you agree to. There is also a risk of womb perforation when inserting a coil, it's another risk you agree too.
Technically, they weren't negligent.

The NHS on the other hand had you admitted for 4 days and failed to notice or address the issue. The NHS then tried a second surgical procedure to clear the womb, which failed, but they sent you off. The EPU dismissed your bleeding.

You seem to have received worse treatment from the NHS but your anger is focused on MS, presumably because you didn't actually want the termination.

Counselling would be a better use of your time and money.

I think suing for this is selfish and seems like you want to gain money from this situation.

I you feel strongly, then write a complaint.

As an employee in maternity care, it is well known that Marie Stopes have pretty poor aftercare, compared to BPAS, who is who your GP and the NHS would have referred you to.

Your description of the events is highly emotional on your half and doesn't seem entirely accurate. The women being called in quickly, the magazines and music are all irrelevant. You are not involved in their lists, you have no idea how many lists they are running, so the amount of people being called out is nothing to do with you.

You would have signed consent for the procedure which includes complications. This is a VERY common thing to happen and happens in all NHS trusts/BPAS all the time.

You use terms like 'rushed' and 'serious' however weren't kept in hospital long term, so I assume the NHS trust treating you would not describe the events in any such serious tone that you have.

Retain products of conception does not necessarily mean 'parts of the baby', it is simply tissue that is from the pregnancy and often just vascular tissue and clots. As previously said, RPOC is extremely common for surgical miscarriage management and TOP's due to the limitations of the procedure itself.

Unless your GP is a walking, talking laboratory who assess histology with his eyes then there is no way he can be sure it is placenta.

You have no case, purely the right to complain that the emotional follow up was poor.
However, this is relatively well known in the field and why BPAS is much preferred, not that that makes it any better.

Hetero has given a great post there. OP, I am sorry to hear you have had such an awful time, I had a termination at marie stopes the same way you did, and it was in no way anything like what you have described. I hope you can get some counselling to help you to deal with your experience and the grief.

Agree with sailor.

Making a claim for medical negligence is a bloody long, exhausting, difficult process. You put yourself through a lot. The only way I'd ever do it if I didn't have a pretty cast iron case, which it doesn't sound like you do, is if I were utterly desperate for the money. Just not worth it otherwise.

I'd focus my attentions on my recovery instead. Not because it's selfish to sue a medical provider but because, actually, you should be selfish here, prioritise yourself. And I wouldn't think legal action was really in my interests. Definitely agree with posters who have suggested counselling.

What you went through was appalling. I'd see a lawyer, and if you had a case, then i'd sue. Complaints meant diddly squat, and you will get a run of the mill sorry it happened, lessons will be learned, blah blah blah insincere bs letter. Unless it makes the papers, and even then they'd probably try to wriggle their way out of it (United Airlines anyone). Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. The only thing that companies are interested in is the bottom line, so if you want them to take note, hitting them financially is the way to go. Even then, im sure they are insured up to the eyeballs, so it will possibly only be their insurance premiums going up.

I think it sounds like you are upset, angry and regretful, none of which are surprising in this awful situation but it sounds like you need and want to channel that into something or someone and are looking for blame. Not surprising. But I can't see that suing them will help you at all. Do complain. How you were treated is awful and surely they should have checked with you that you were 100% about going ahead, as well as seeing you in the first place. A complaint is definitely worthwhile. Then I'd look into counselling as it seems as if this is going to be something you are going to struggle with and you need professional help to deal with it.

I'm so sorry for what you have been through

I lost a baby through missed miscarriage last year, and got retained placenta leading to a serious blood loss and emergency d&c.
You're likely to be feeling fragile right now, so please see your doctor to talk you through what happened, and how it happened etc. I needed to know why my miscarriage happened the way it did in order to process it all.

The fact is things can go wrong, it's horrible when your that 1 in 100 etc it happens to, but suing won't help you.
I agree with those who have suggested contacting MS and asking them to help you understand what went wrong too.

Please try to focus on getting better right now

Complaints meant diddly squat, and you will get a run of the mill sorry it happened, lessons will be learned, blah blah blah insincere bs letter. Unless it makes the papers, and even then they'd probably try to wriggle their way out of it (United Airlines anyone). Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded

Marie Stopes is a registered charity, not a large American airline company. I've worked in clinical governance. It depends on the organisation but complaints are generally taken very seriously. Cultures within organisations vary but not all of them refuse to take any notice. The investigations I was involved in included interviews with all HCPs and auxiliary staff involved plus assessment by a medical director. If we found we'd made mistakes we changed things to try to avoid repeating them. We'd also host meetings with patients, their representatives and HCPs involved if that was appropriate.

As someone who's been involved in the complaints procedure, rather than someone deluded, I'd say that is the path to take. The OP needs to look after herself. Suing will be horrible and drawn out. Even the complaints procedure may be difficult but it will be less pressured.

It may be a registered charity, but it is also a company that sells a service (abortion) and whos turnover is in the multi millions. I dont believe for a second that because it is a registered charity it would be any less scrupulous than other companies with the same income.

It's not a question of making mistakes. It's the whole culture of Marie Stopes. They were in the news not long ago for not following correct procedure. How can they call themselves a charity when the service they give so far falls below any standard of treating women with any ort of respect, sensitivity and decentness. Why are women to put up with this fourth rate service calling themselves a charity. Lessons won't ever be learnt. It's the whole set up and culture of the place that is wrong. Yes they should be sued.