"It doesn't matter what you think, it's not even your house!"

[StinkyMcgrinky]

Sorry, another neighbour one but I need an outside opinion. Totally prepared to be told it's me with the issues, it seems things with neighbours have being going on for so long that things that shouldn't annoy me now are... it's getting to the stage where me and DH are genuinely thinking about looking for another house.

We rent and live in a 3 bed semi-detached house, the house joining us own their property. We have two young children (2 and 10 months) and they have 6 aged between 1 and 16, we've lived here almost a year and it's only in the last few months that things with the neighbours have become strained. I can't think of an incident that set it off but it all started about Christmas time.

We live at the bottom of a cul-de-sac, we both have 2 parking spaces, one directly outside of the property and a parking bay across the road. We have 1 vehicle and they have 2 (I've tried to provide an illustration!) just before Christmas it became increasingly common that i would arrive back from work around 5.15pm and NDN would have both of their cars parked in the spaces outside of the properties, theirs and ours. I would park across the road and then have to carry DS1 and DS2 into the house. I asked NDN politely if they could leave our space free as we needed it, especially when I was taking two children into the house and it was raining. They apologised but nothing changed, they still park in our space 4-5 days a week. When their parents visit they park across the two parked cars (ours and theirs) blocking us in.

For what it's worth I don't know what they do for work/if they work but they are both in the house almost all day. I have just returned to work after maternity leave so have been home myself to notice their comings and goings.

They do a lot of DIY on their house, this is fine, they are entitled to do it and if it's very noisy I take the children over to my parents or out for the day. I don't expect absolute silence from them. However, last weekend they decided to fit a new fireplace at 11.30pm on a Sunday evening. Obviously this woke up DS1 who was terrified of the drilling (as was I to be honest) and wouldn't settle until around 2am. DH went round to ask if it was necessary to do DIY using tools at that time and that they have woken up our kids, their response was they also had kids and they were awake so it was ok this was an extreme case but they regularly hammer, drill, move furniture etc...after 8-9pm.

Now the evenings are lighter the children are playing in the gardens more, ours and theirs, which is lovely. The children are nice enough but if they're outside at the same time as DS1 (2) they do make fun of him (mock his speech, tell him he's a baby because he wears a nappy, ask him to say wee wee and poo poo etc...) so we try to keep DS away when we can. Their parents have heard them doing this and said nothing.

Bedtime for our children is about 7.30pm - this past week the children next door (5 year old twins and 7 year old) have still been playing on the trampoline in the garden at gone 10.30pm. (They are back at school
and it doesn't seem to matter if it's a weekend, school night, holidays etc...) They don't play quietly and even had a water balloon fight last night, in the dark. Its not my business what anyone else decides to do with their children but as my DSs window backs onto the gardens he has been disturbed every night and woken up crying, so it's started to affect mine.

Today I spoke to the mum and just asked if it was possible to remind the children to not scream and shout later in the evening as my son was being woken. Her response was "it's doesn't mattter what you think, it's not even your house!" And she walked off so it seems that because they own their house and we rent we just have to put up and shut up.

I don't like confrontation, I don't want to cause friction with the neighbours when we have to live here. I'm thinking of contacting our letting agent and landlord but don't know if I'll get anywhere. Has anyone who has rented had anything similar with owners? Is it worth speaking to them again, writing a letter or do you think I'm wasting my breath? I've read a lot about owners having problems with renters and what to do but not the other way round

while you can, not when!

Keep a diary of any nuisance behaviour, late night noisy behaviour, including kids playing in garden late especially if it happens often during school nights.

Then send the information to environmental health and whoever else is appropriate.

Meanwhile look for somewhere else to rent.

I would leave. Sorry you're having to deal with this OP, they sound horrible.

Oh and if she comes out with it again say 'well unless you've paid your entire mortgage off you don't own all your house, the bloody bank does!'

I had a similar situation some years ago when I rented an upstairs flat that had sole rights to a garden. The downstairs flat had a door on to it but it was only to be used as a fire exit, the downstairs people weren't entitled to use the garden or have regular access through it. But of course they did. Because we were tenants and they were owner-occupiers, they tried to make out it had been agreed with the landlord/agent/previous tenants (story kept changing). They used to cross through the garden late at night to get to/from their car which was parked in a back lane, banging the fire exit door and the gate at the property line, and every time they did a security light under our bedroom window would come on, and between the light and the banging we'd wake up 3 or 4 times a night. It sounds tame, but it was very stressful being woken night after night. We asked them to stop, of course, and they wouldn't, of course, and were pretty abusive.

Anyway, we ended up asking the agent to intervene even though we felt a bit wussy about not being able to sort it out ourselves, and they were absolutely fantastic. The neighbour's daughter was a lawyer and she advised them to argue they had easement rights, and the agent totally wasn't having any of it - came to the property and tore them off a strip, made them sign a document agreeing they had no such rights, and even made them clean up all the rubbish they'd left in the garden over the weeks. They did a bang up job both for us and for the landlord by making sure it was all nipped in the bud. So all of this is to say that it can be done. It is definitely worth approaching your landlord, who obviously has a vested interest in making sure the house is lettable and that they aren't having to find a new tenant every 6 months.

Sounds shit, though, and I completely understand why you might want to just move. I guess it depends how much you like the house and how much it feels like home.

Definitely diarise everything!

Can you swap rooms with ds? Put him at the front so he doesn't get the children screeching on the trampoline. The evenings are getting lighter, so I think it's just going to get worse.

Tell the agents/LL too.

Good luck.

One of the advantages of renting is being able to move away from this stuff! If you owned this house you could lose tens of thousands over this.
Move and tell the agent & landlord why.

You need to inform the Landlord as he has a right to know that the neighbour's are driving his tenants away. It is essentially costing him quite a bit of money as every single day that house is empty, he's losing rent. He may also still have a mortgage & insurance to pay on it which I imagine is infuriating for the period of time that the house is empty.

I would contact Environmental Health and possibly even Police. As this COULD be considered a form of Harassment. Certainly intimidation. Everyone has the right to reasonably enjoyment of their home - rented or owned. And they are intimidating you into putting up with their behaviour.

I would also call Social Services about the children if you have ANY concerns. Sounds like they're being kept up until the parents go to bed. Which might not sound like a huge deal to some people, but it's potentially damaging for children to be consistently sleep deprived. I know I'm going to get abuse for suggesting SS but it's NOT meant as a revenge tactic, just IF you feel it's necessary. Def call EH & Police. X

Yep easiest thing to do is to move, but I would give the landlady the heads up as to why.

The children are nice enough but if they're outside at the same time as DS1 (2) they do make fun of him (mock his speech, tell him he's a baby because he wears a nappy, ask him to say wee wee and poo poo etc...)
The children are NOT nice enough. They are nasty little bullies, and thugs in the making. They are chips off the old block. The parents are teaching them well. I would not let my child anywhere near them.

You are fortunate to be renting. If I was in in your situation and decided to move, I would not tell them, but make the last week that I was there into pure hell for them, so that they think the worm has turned, (actually, I know I wouldn't, as have elevated meekness to a new level - but I'd like to).

Wonders if they plan to run out all renters to this property so they can buy it cheep. Then have a bigger place

(((((((Hugs))))))) OP

I do worry about the children. The silly things they say to DS1 aside, they are still only young and we can often hear them when we are in bed around 10.30pm running around (their bedroom must share a wall with ours) and they are taken to school at 8am on the morning so can't get much sleep.

At the weekends it isn't unusual for us to not see any signs of life next door until around 11am (so they probably curse us getting up at 7, but we don't do anything extraordinarily loud) but during the week when they are at school they can't be sleeping much.

I feel ridiculous now writing it down and not having been more concerned in their welfare. It's stupidly naive but they seem very content children so it never occurred to me that there could be an element of neglect.

It isn't relevant for any other part of this thread but they are a Muslim family and seem to be quite devout (e.g. Mosque every day, traditional dress etc...)and appear to be very active in the Muslim community. I think part of me thought it was simply different lifestyles.

*apologies for spelling mistakes. I'm typing this while trying to settle teething DS2!

I'd move. You have that option because you do rent - and they're not going to care, so yes, even though it means they "win", live your own life better and find a nicer place to live with better neighbours.

I agree with the others, I can't see it improving. You have tried to talk to them on a reasonable way ie saying. You need the space because of shopping and your son is little, your son is in bed, being woken up etc. Nothing has changed and now she has tried to pull rank via ownership/renting. It will go one way. Do make sure you tell the landlord and agent your reasons for moving.

Good luck OP

I would move, this is what I love about renting you just don't have to put up with this shit, but definitely get the estate agent round to have a word, make them earn their money.

I'll be the 63rd person to say to you if I were you I would move. And I would keep a diary from now until then. And I would send a registered letter to them and the landlords, listing your problems (so that if they go to sell the house, they know they've got to report any dispute or disagreement because someone at their house has signed for a letter where you outline your issues with them). I would also most definitely be complaining about power tools at night, to the council, to noise abatement or whatever it's called, and if after midnight, to the police. I don't know about their children not getting sufficient sleep/trampolining/playing late at night... that could be cultural/their preference/they could claim their kids don't need that much sleep, and I wouldn't want to get involved in anything like that, or anything that could be even suggestive of a revenge call to social services, how would you feel if they revenge called back and made something up? Awful!

They don't sound neglectful, just crap parents tbh.
It's not your problem, it's the landlords. Ask them if they need any help from you (evidence/record keeping for a solicitors letter maybe) but otherwise I'd use my feet and all away.

I'd be reminding her that you don't need to own a property to report antisocial behaviour. What a set of cheeky weirdos!

I would move, it will probably get worse. sorry you are having to put up with such shit, some people are just inconsiderate.

Great diagram, love the flowers.

We lived next to a family like that, luckily they moved, after leaving their dog alone in the house for weeks crying to itself.

Move.

She is wrong to suggest that she has more rights than you because she owns her house but you are saying you have only lived there for a almost a year and problems started around Xmas - not long after you moved in then really!!

To be honest I suspect they have lived their lives their way in their own house for many years and have never had any complaints before - therefore are probably feeling really angry.

It seems they live in a much freer more relaxed way than you do and are probably at this moment sat moaning about their nightmare neighbours who have just moved in and think they can tell them how to live their lives.

If you really are finding it this hard then I suspect you will have to move - but the next neighbours you get could be even worse.

You will have to move. They won't change and it will only escalate into a war if you keep complaining.

Look on the bright side, it's one of the very few benefits of renting over owning! Imagine how depressed you'd be if you'd only just bought the house and could do nothing about it.

It isn't relevant for any other part of this thread

It's not relevant at all

I agree that th first thingto do is contact the landlady and take it from there. I would probably be looking to move though as I can't see it improving really.

It isn't relevant for any other part of this thread but they are a Muslim family and seem to be quite devout

Actually I think it is relevant and as soon as I read your OP I was going to ask if they were possibly Arab, Middle Eastern or Eastern Mediterranean. In my quite significant experience they do allow their children to stay up much, much later than we in Northern Europe do, and are more laid back about children making noise, being a bit cheeky or generally running amok in public places etc.

Generalising wildly here, I know, but we tend to have a 'children should be seen but not heard' culture and are fans of strict routine whereas they tend to be more indulgent, less rigid and more laid back about such things.