Horses on the roads - AIBU to think its just not safe anymore - who is at fault?

[Heliom]

I am a rider, I consider myself a sensible and safe rider. I've been riding for over 25 years and feel the roads are becoming increasingly dangerous, drivers increasingly inconsiderate and quite literally now forcing riders off the road. I've worked really hard with my horse to make sure she is completely as road safe as possible, trained her to be calm around bikes, motobikes, tractors, buses, lorries etc and thank god I have after today...
this is the list of what I encountered today on a 'quiet' hack on country lanes.

1. Three motorbikes speeding down the road who saw us some way off and didn't even slow down, came thundering past.
2. A car speeding around a blind bend on a single track lane nearly took us and had to mount the verge to avoid us before speeding off
3. a HUGE tractor which took up most of the road which went straight passed a pull over spot and just stopped on the road. He expected us to pass inbetween him and the plough he was towing where we had less than 6inches either side and he refused to switch off his engine. Our horses are extremely good on the road and did pass but this was at their limit!
4. A massive group of cyclists who just came charging pass
5. A car who refused to pull off the road at all (there was room) forcing us to basically ake the horses down a ditch
6. Being beeped at (yes someone actually through it was sensible to beep their horn loudly at us) when they were behind us and we were going round a blind bend trotting as we knew we could pull in just a little way up and let the car pass. This was without doubt a particularly bad hack and probably one of the worst I've had but other roads users behaviours made it a horrid and quite frankly dangerous experience for us. If I had been on a younger or more inexperienced horse I have no doubt today would have ended very badly! Of course there are lots of very courteous drivers on the road, and we always make sure we move over when can, let people pass, say thanks, wear fluorescent clothing, etc. But I do feel it is becoming increasingly dangerous to ride on the road and the attitude seems to be that its my fault for taking on my horse on the road. Sadly I have few places left to ride and all bridleways need some road work inbetween. So AIBU to ride on the road, AIBU to expect drivers to take care of horses or am I being reasonable in thinking some/ many (not all) drivers are increasingly not caring about horses and other on the road....

@User543210 Not RTFT but I study vehicle collision as part of my degree and both I and a lot of my tutors believe horses should be banned from roads as they can be unpredictable and no matter how much you train them accidents happen whether caused by the rider, the driver or anything else.

I beg you to provide me the name of the degree and institution you are attending, which promotes this POV, because I want to write to the Dean and complain vociferously about this appalling attitude being taught.

I doubt very much we'll get the name of this mythical college

User
I'm no statitian but I will bet it the farm that any rta statistics will show that the most accidents were caused by people in a vehicle being an idiot thinking 'I own the road, I am invincible' not be rampaging horses.

I'd also agree with thomasrichard that education needs improving towards horses on the roads, and the education of horse riders too. I personally think that children under 16 should be accompanied by an adult, and that minimum standards be imposed - a bridle and saddle for a ridden horse, 3rd party insurance and fluorescents and reflectives worn by riders on the roads, as well as hats being mandatory (I think currently it's only under 14 have to wear them) drivers should also be taught about passing wide and slow, and slowing or stopping when asked - I regularly get told to fuck off (in a variety of interesting and inventive ways!) For asking ppl to stop because there's a car coming the other way on a narrow lane, I can see them over the hedge and hear them, as well as the car behind, I'm trying to warn of a potential hazard - and I'm sick of at least half the drivers ignoring me and dishing out abuse to then be forced into a ditch or hedge because they have to slam on and swerve at the last minute.

Never had a horse nor am I likely to ever own one but I don't think YABU at all OP .

Horses, afterall, have been on our roads far far longer than metal cars and motorbikes so why should OP or anyone else with a horse for that matter , desist from what should be a pleasant path/road with it ?

Ihaveabloodyheadache

Minimum standards: the HWC does currently state that horses shouldn't be on the road without a saddle and bridle. Many insurance policies add hi vis to this minimum.

I agree that it seems unwise to let under 16s on the road alone - I certainly wouldn't want children of mine on the road on horseback without supervision.

I think it's really important that the BHS continues to provide riding and road safety courses (I think PC promote these too - my local PC used to run them) and that these are a huge part of road safety training for riders. It does, however, frustrate me that they tell riders to use a waved arm to signal other road users to slow down - according to the HWC, this means " I am slowing down". It's no wonder motorists get confused when there are basic misleads like this in communication. They do, however, strongly promote riders acknowledging courteous driving, ideally with a wave and a smile where possible!

As for education, it is on the theory test - and has been since at least the mid-00s. The BHS are also running awareness campaigns and there have been posters on buses (and probably other educational promotions too). Those that I've seen focus on the 15mph maximum passing speed, and, I think, give a minimum passing distance too. As riders who are concerned about road safety, it's really important that we support the BHS in these efforts, take out membership and promote their campaigns

Sheep -
Wholeheartedly agree on the BHS training and campaigns, and the PC do a great job of promoting safe road craft in young riders. Unfortunately, I've not seen the posters round here, and I live in the arse end of nowhere, but where horses are quite common on the roads, I did see a few televised adverts a few years ago, but it was while I worked nights, and on in the small hours and can't have reached many people at the time it was aired (it was the one with the lady and child riding along and the car going too fast, horse rears and car windscreen is smashed - quite effective I thought)
I share the hell out of anything like that on Facebook - there was one a few months ago where a horse was pts at the side of the road after being hit by an impatient driver - whilst pulling a funeral carriage. Utterly shocking and so sad for everyone involved.
I wasn't aware about the saddle being recommended, I recall from my riding and road safety (a zillion years ago) that a bridle was strongly recommended, but no mention of a saddle. I also see the point about the hand signals, it seems to have been adopted by horse riders to mean please slow down, rather than I am slowing down. I can see the confusion.

And another thing I was told by a bridleway officer was that councils only put warning signs up if there is a horse 'business' in the area, such as a riding school or racing yard. I asked why they don't consider livery yards a business that would warrant a sign and was told not because the horses are privately owned and not by a business or used by a business, not sure on the validity of that though.

I'd rather pass a horse on the road than a pedal cyclist.
A horse rider will usually get into the side and I'll give a wide berth
And pass slowly not to frighten it.

Cyclists terrify me on the other hand.

I particularly hate built up areas where you get safely past them . You're waiting at the traffic lights, watching everything ahead of you, keeping eyes open for children, dogs, pedestrians jay walking and then you catch a glimpse out of the corner of your eye and here's the cyclist squeezing into a tiny gap between you and the kerb.

Why don't they pull up just behind your car where they are safer.

Unless you have easy access to off road hacks, you shouldn't really have a horse. I used to ride a moped. But most horses try to kick your head off (even from the other side of a wide road), if you come anywhere near them.
I ended up having to turn off the engine and wait for the horses to pass.
Dangerous on a country road.
So if you can't get directly to an off road hack, then use a horsebox. Safer for everyone.

Then use a horsebox

Yeah great. Then have every last tosser weaving about behind you giving you the evils because you're not cornering at 60 on nsl roads , and pulling out in front of you at roundabouts , and braking sharply right in front of you for no good reason , instead . None of which is safer for anyone .

Unless you have easy access to off road hacks, you shouldn't really have a horse. I used to ride a moped. But most horses try to kick your head off (even from the other side of a wide road), if you come anywhere near them.
I ended up having to turn off the engine and wait for the horses to pass.
Dangerous on a country road.
So if you can't get directly to an off road hack, then use a horsebox. Safer for everyone.

I dint think you've read th thread properly. Horse riders don't have to use a horsebox because THEY ARE ALLOWED TO RIDE ON THE ROADS.

Yes mopeds are annoying buzzy things but my horse couldn't care less about them.

Thank you for turning off your engine. Not sure why that's dangerous though? I quite often pull in to let other road users by, it's not dangerous when I do that.

Our horses are pretty bombproof on the road (tractors, fire engine on blues and twos etc). It's because we ride on the road so they are used to it.

I enjoy road rides as well as off road hacking and in winter road work is sometimes the only option.

I'm a considerate road user and find most others usually are.

Live and let live

I am from the country and when I visit my folks, I got running round the rural roads. I have to wear high vis and be very careful because of the recklessness of some drivers. The roads are for everyone and people should be more considerate. You have my sympathy. I hope the camera idea works.

Unless you have easy access to off road hacks, you shouldn't really have a horse. I used to ride a moped. But most horses try to kick your head off (even from the other side of a wide road), if you come anywhere near them.
I ended up having to turn off the engine and wait for the horses to pass.
Dangerous on a country road.
So if you can't get directly to an off road hack, then use a horsebox. Safer for everyone.

Polly - my thoughts exactly!

"Unless you have easy access to off road hacks, you shouldn't really have a horse. I used to ride a moped. But most horses try to kick your head off ( even from the other side of a wide road)"

I shouldn't have a horse, even though it's perfectly legal to ride on the roads to get to off road hacks??
And most horses? No, I don't think so.

YANBU.. sadly I lost my horse about 6 weeks ago due to old age and illness and one of the main reasons I won't be getting another horse is due to the increased liability on our roads and lack of hacking due to brifleways not being maintained or closed. Additionally in a lot of areas of beautiful hacking countryside is now inundated with 100's of cyclists (mountain bike trails) at the weekends.

I can see others have suggested it but I was going to suggest a Go Pro attached to your helmet and record everything on your hack. I think mentally if a driver knows they're being recorded they may be more considerate and act accordingly. Also tonnes of fluorescent clothing. I live in a very horsey area and as a rider often gobsmacked at seeing riders with dark clothing on a dark horse riding along a dark hedge. Apologies if you do this already.

I bought a trailer for the sole purpose of loading up and going to areas without any roadwork and whilst it worked in principle it's still loads of faff to go through just to pop out for an hours hack..

As an aside I actually have a Go Pro Hero 4 with helmet mount that I'm selling....

Its unfortunate. We board in the midst of miles of trails for riding but over the years roads for cars have been developed in this area and to reach the trails we must cross sections of road. It may come as a shock to some drivers but at least where I live the rules are others such as horse riders, bikers, carriages, tractors, etc... also have the right to use roadways and motorists are to yield and use care. There is a small, winding road in front of our stable located shortly before a small village with 30 mph speed limit. There are horse crossing signs on either side of this section of road. Yet cars and large trucks come barreling through this section often over 50 mph. The people often act like the riders have some nerve being in their way requiring them to slow down. So far as I know rules of the road in our area give riders the right to use roads as well as motor vehicles and human decency indicates one should be aware of their vulnerability. Does it seriously cost even more than a minute to slow down or give wide berth?

Today I waited and looked and listened before crossing but we are on a corner. As we started across an 18 wheeler truck going fast came around the corner and startled my horse a bit. The driver thankfully slowed down. My horse was clearly scared and scuttled sideways a bit. The people in the car behind the truck though were bent out of shape they had to slow down for us. Glaring they yelled out their window and then revved their engine as they passed. Clearly they didnt care if they caused a wreck injuring my horse or myself. So long as they wouldn't be caught for causing it or hitting us. I have similar problems with an area on one of the trails where model plane or drone enthusiast flyers now come. Some of them actually buzz my horse making her nervous. We confronted one once who said they had to fly this way due to wind but it didn't add up. They flew just behind and above us on the way out and also coming back the other direction. Would it really be such a huge inconvenience to avoid the horse? Someone told me some of the flyers hope to make it miserable/dangerous enough riders stop going that way so they dont feel they have to pause flights. A lot of people only care for their agenda and convenience even if the inconvenience to them is mild and their actions toward others could cause grievous injury. So long as they dont get in trouble for it.