Horses on the roads - AIBU to think its just not safe anymore - who is at fault?

[Heliom]

I am a rider, I consider myself a sensible and safe rider. I've been riding for over 25 years and feel the roads are becoming increasingly dangerous, drivers increasingly inconsiderate and quite literally now forcing riders off the road. I've worked really hard with my horse to make sure she is completely as road safe as possible, trained her to be calm around bikes, motobikes, tractors, buses, lorries etc and thank god I have after today...
this is the list of what I encountered today on a 'quiet' hack on country lanes.

1. Three motorbikes speeding down the road who saw us some way off and didn't even slow down, came thundering past.
2. A car speeding around a blind bend on a single track lane nearly took us and had to mount the verge to avoid us before speeding off
3. a HUGE tractor which took up most of the road which went straight passed a pull over spot and just stopped on the road. He expected us to pass inbetween him and the plough he was towing where we had less than 6inches either side and he refused to switch off his engine. Our horses are extremely good on the road and did pass but this was at their limit!
4. A massive group of cyclists who just came charging pass
5. A car who refused to pull off the road at all (there was room) forcing us to basically ake the horses down a ditch
6. Being beeped at (yes someone actually through it was sensible to beep their horn loudly at us) when they were behind us and we were going round a blind bend trotting as we knew we could pull in just a little way up and let the car pass. This was without doubt a particularly bad hack and probably one of the worst I've had but other roads users behaviours made it a horrid and quite frankly dangerous experience for us. If I had been on a younger or more inexperienced horse I have no doubt today would have ended very badly! Of course there are lots of very courteous drivers on the road, and we always make sure we move over when can, let people pass, say thanks, wear fluorescent clothing, etc. But I do feel it is becoming increasingly dangerous to ride on the road and the attitude seems to be that its my fault for taking on my horse on the road. Sadly I have few places left to ride and all bridleways need some road work inbetween. So AIBU to ride on the road, AIBU to expect drivers to take care of horses or am I being reasonable in thinking some/ many (not all) drivers are increasingly not caring about horses and other on the road....

I think people are forgetting horses where on the roads a long time before cars were. I dont own a horse but i do drive and pass as wide and slowly as i can. I think you have every right to ride a horse on the road BUT people do drive like idiots and its bad enough being in a car sometimes with other people driving like arseholes so im not sure that i would feel safe riding a horse on the road

Apologies for spelling

User based on that people should be banned from roads, they can swerve unpredictably, make irrational decisions and accidents happen! What nonsense. As a rider one thing I take trust in the fact I'm sitting on an animal wits a brain and survival instinct, I couldn't count the amount of times my horse has saved me from tricky situations posed by unpredictable humans!!

I was just sharing with you the opinion of professionals and lecturers in the area of vehicle collisions and traffic collisions.

Of course people should be banned from walking in the road and in some countries (such as America) it is actually illegal to cross the road when not at a crossing. The difference is that a person can hear or see a car coming and not be spooked causing them to run into the road in a panic whereas a horse (a dangerous animal due to size and strength) can.

What does your tutor think we should do about deer then? They don't even have a human on top, making decisions and training them. Or wear hi vis. And they're often on the roads at night...

I fear your tutors aren't terribly bright if they haven't made the connection that the most dangerous thing on the road is the car, and that, if we want safer roads, is the thing which has to be driven according to the potential hazards of the road - not presume it's their personal bloody racetrack.

Deer are wild animals and accidents happen. Horses are purposely taken on the roads and that's the difference.

I think you're being a bit condescending and I don't know why. Of course cars are the most dangerous things on the roads and they agree with that - but in the subject of horses on the roads it is believed among most professionals in this area that they should be banned.

What a load of undergraduatey bollocks user

Most car-horse accidents are caused by drivers failing to act in accordance with the highway code though (according to BHS stats - see their Dead or Slow campaign data), so banning horses "because they're live animals with their own minds" is hardly a logical response. Depressingly, I'd trust the mind of my trained horses over the average idiot-human driver, anyway.

You're correct that my deer point is flippant. My point is that if you drive on country roads as though you may meet a deer (or a pedestrian, horse, cyclist or tractor) around any blind bend, you will drastically reduce the number of car-horse collisions. We can't (logistically) prevent deer from being on the road, so people should be driving as though they may meet one (not at a snail's pace, just sensibly, so that you can stop if necessary). If people could possibly bring themselves to manage that, this whole debate would be entirely unnecessary.

Lame from Canter on the road limited?

Yes, I meant that 50Bales . I haven't ridden a horse in 25 years and probably won't ever again but my understanding is that you should never canter a horse down a hard road or even trot it for long distances because you will damage its legs, possibly fatally.

Therefore they have to walk until they can get onto safer ground.

It's a bit like telling an old lady to get a bloody move on. Just rude and ignorant. I can wait.

Exactly limited. Only an idiot (or on board a bolter) would do that. Sorry was being punny

Of course drivers are a main course of incidents on the rode and even with horses as they startle the horses, however, the horses do get spooked and there are incidents of horses being spooked by a very responsible driver just because the horse has been startled (I know someone who was in an accident because their horse was stung by something and it jumped to the side and in the way of an oncoming car).

Its sad that people don't take care but we can't ignore the fact that no one is 100% in control of any animal at any time, including horses.

YADNBU!
I live in a rural area too, and all my neighbours have horses. Our house is on a long straight stretch of the road, and we keep our gate open so our horse riding neighbours can get out of the way of oncoming tractors when they need to, but there are stretches of the road here which have high banks, no verge, blind corners and only wide enough for one vehicle. Its not just horse riders, but cyclists, and kids walking home from the school bus, that use the road.. Drivers (and i have to say tractor drivers are the worst) do not slow down on these bends. Really everyone is in danger here.

Every road user should be considerate and respectful of other road users but I have to say that I only learned about horses via MN. Before reading on here, I had no idea that horses didn't like cars, that they could spook or that cars shouldn't overtake them at normal speed. Now I slow right down to crawl past riders very wide but I just didn't know. Education would probably help.

YANBU OP but, the world is changing and roads just aren't that safe anymore- it's so sad that you can't expect basic courtesy these days but you can't. I personally, would be looking at alternatives to keep you and your horse safe- as sad as it is!

We can't all control anything 100%. Accidents will happen.

Can you cite your 'professionals in this area' and their peer reviewed publications who advocate banning horse's from the road please user51320?

Yes, but accidents are also caused by humans acting unpredictably on the roads. You can't argue that horses should be banned because on occasion they are unpredictable (and this is very much a minority cause of horse-related road accidents) when our entire road system depends on humans who are also unpredictable. A cyclist stung by a bee may also swerve in front of a car - indeed, a cyclist is more likely to than a horse which (as a living creature) may well have some self-preservation instinct. A driver stung by a bee may swerve and take out pedestrians. A pedestrian stung by a bee may step into the road accidentally. This is what hazard perception is all about - drivers acknowledging risk, watching potential hazards and reacting accordingly. Most horse-car accidents are a result of drivers failing to do this - humans being unpredictable again.

People aren't machines, and your entire logic hinges on the premise that, as horses aren't machines, they shouldn't be on the road. That is, very much, a flawed logic, even if it is one held dear by your tutors (whose personal opinions are just that, unless supported by facts, statistics and, y'know, data - and arguing from authority is a logical fallacy anyway).

We live in a rural area and have lots of horses on the road. Don't mind it a bit. Just be patient, slow down and give plenty of room. (and I am not normally the patient type). It's not difficult

Not RTFT but I study vehicle collision as part of my degree and both I and a lot of my tutors believe horses should be banned from roads as they can be unpredictable and no matter how much you train them accidents happen whether caused by the rider, the driver or anything else.

Unlike you and your tutors User543210, I'm no expert.

I know it's pesky anecdata but IME the biggest danger to life and limb on our roads are unpredictable fuckwits in cars. That's because most people on our roads are car drivers, though irritatingly they have to share them with pedestrians, motorcyclists, cyclists and way down the list - horse riders.

Many car drivers are not very good at sharing the road with other users. Do your tutors have any way to resolve this appallingly selfish habit?

Or should we just go straight for a ban? Do tell

I would agree with thomasrichard that more education for motorists would be helpful

I grew up and learnt to drive in a semi rural area but I honestly don't recall seeing many horses on the roads and I don't recall being told what to do if I encountered horse by my driving instructor (early 1990s before they introduced the separate theory test).

I now live in a different area and regularly encounter horses on the road. I cannot believe that anyone who learnt to drive in this area would not also learn that you need to drive very wide and slow past any horses. I also cycle and have got into the habit of slowing down and shouting 'hello' if approaching riders from behind so they know I am there.

I have learned these things from friends and acquaintances who ride or know people that ride, and I guess from observation as the majority of drivers in this area are pretty respectful of horses in the road

When people stop using their mobile phone while driving, ill stop riding on the roads!

I wear hi viz and only ride briefly on a B road to get to a bridleway. My horse and pony are brilliant on the road. Noone knows that however and it's shocking how people literally don't give a fuck.

Some really thick attitudes on this thread.

I live in a rural area and there are many many horses along our country lanes, I always slow down for them, it can be a bit problematic on blind bends etc but it's just what any civilized human being does, what I do find annoying is when I haven't timed my departure in the morning right and I get stuck waiting for the cows to do their thing! 😂

Not RTFT but I study vehicle collision as part of my degree and both I and a lot of my tutors believe horses should be banned from roads as they can be unpredictable and no matter how much you train them accidents happen whether caused by the rider, the driver or anything else.

I cannot actually believe this. Surely human beings are the most unpredictable road users?

Your tutors don't sound particularly intelligent.

Or are they 'those' kind of tutors who think anyone other than exactly their demographic (probably middle aged white men) cause all the accidents on the roads? It's never them or anyone like them.

mieowthecat that is indeed very niche! Sorry that one weird experience has coloured your views.

YANBU!
I'm not horsey, and I don't mix in horsey circles, but I know of two people who have died when horses panicked. We are assuming with one as she was unaccompanied, horse returned to our village riderless, husband went out to follow her usual route and found her body on the verge, she had head and other injuries. She had a young daughter and taught dance, including at the local school, everyone was devastated.
I think most people just haven't a clue.