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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think it's a bit late of the school to stop DS going on his residential trip now!

329 replies

EnglishRose1320 · 21/04/2017 15:34

DS1 is in year 6, has just been diagnosed as having autism and is finding the sats practice very stressful, as a result he refused to go into class this morning and instead sat outside waving a stick around.
The deputy called and said they were going to have to review whether he goes on the residential trip or not and probably wouldn't be able to.
AIBU to think that it's a bit late, the trip is straight after sats, DS is excited (which is rare) we have forked out nearly £200 for it and although the diagnosis was recent DS has been in the school for coming up 4 years, they should know him by now and be able to accommodate his needs.

OP posts:
Trifleorbust · 22/04/2017 20:12

youarenotkiddingme:

Thank you - totally correct!

Sparklyglitter · 22/04/2017 20:22

If they try to exclude your child it will be discrimination. As far as I'm aware they have a duty to provide support to allow your child to go, like sending an additional member of staff. Your child's behaviour surely hasn't changed just because he has a diagnosis and the school would be fully aware of what he has been like for the past 4 years.
I would seek advice don't leave it to the last minute xx

Original poster
EnglishRose1320 · 22/04/2017 20:42

Thanks for the advice and those that have mentioned websites, brilliant I will check them all out.

OP posts:
Beautifullymixed · 22/04/2017 20:49

.

1nsanityscatching · 22/04/2017 21:25

It wasn't a residential, it was a trip to Eden Camp. It is flaky if a TA who is employed as a 1 to 1 support is scared of the child with SEN she is supposed to support (she covered ds's TA's lunch break so first 30 minutes after lunch usually and would be expected to cover illness or absence). The school told me that the TA wouldn't support ds on the trip and the TA told me herself she was scared of ds and apologised. She knew ds's needs when she secured the post so if growling was a problem then she shouldn't have applied IMO.
It makes no odds anyway the LA funded the whole lot and if the situation arose again I would do exactly the same again with no qualms whatsoever. As it is dd's school sends dd's TA with her on every trip and residential anyway without me needing to mention a word so maybe word got out.

1nsanityscatching · 22/04/2017 21:43

Trifle even if it was the school paying you couldn't have challenged it anyway because the alternative was discriminatory. Schools have the option of approaching the LA if they cannot meet the costs themselves there is funding available in such circumstances regardless as to what parents (and schools perhaps) are led to believe.
In OP's situation the school could approach the LA regarding funding support for the child on the residential. Had they had some foresight and insight they would have done this when the OP's dc expressed a desire to attend.

IonaNE · 22/04/2017 22:12

YABU. Another former teacher here. I would not take a child who does not reliably follow instructions either. You could of course push it based on the Equality Act - but the school might just need to cancel the trip - for everyone.

Original poster
EnglishRose1320 · 22/04/2017 22:22

IonaNa

They have known DS for 4 years
This is not new behaviour, as I said new this term but not new.
They actively encouraged we send DS on the trip when the letter went out.
We have been open to adaptation- parent staying/days only etc, they felt none of that was needed.
They have only changed their mind after one incident post diagnosis.
After an incident last term when DS needed to be restrained I asked of they could still cope with him on the trip and they were adamant they could cope.

If the school needed to cancel the whole trip that would be due to their error and not my fault. As it happens they don't, they just need to do a risk assessment from my DS and put a totally manageable plan in place.

OP posts:
Astro55 · 22/04/2017 22:28

My DD class had a trip cancelled due to the behavior of one child (not mine) which was appalling - they were all told why (??)

It does happen

Some teachers aren't that inclusive

Barbie222 · 22/04/2017 22:32

That's awful!

bigmack · 22/04/2017 22:33

So teachers who state that they wouldn't take children who 'won't follow instructions' -
would you refuse to take a child with PDA?

Barbie222 · 22/04/2017 22:34

OP what would your son see as the right level of support - going for days, going with you, going with 1:1 school staff?

Barbie222 · 22/04/2017 22:35

I think teachers are saying that they would not put children (and staff) on a situation where there was an unacceptable risk of injury or death, regardless of disability.

Astro55 · 22/04/2017 22:38

If the child's behaviour was unmanageable then he shouldn't be in main stream -

He is either managable or he isn't

Barbie222 · 22/04/2017 22:43

Children from all schools - not just mainstream - go on residential trips, but only with an acceptable level of risk. As pp have said there are lots of ways to manage risk and adapt activities, but sadly sometimes it isn't possible to manage the level of risk down to a level which is acceptable for schools and/or parents. OP needs to find out whether enough has been done here. It sounds not but the school will have their own side of the story no doubt.

twelly · 22/04/2017 22:44

Whilst I understand it may be upsetting the teachers will have a responsibility for the whole class, if they believe one child's behaviour cannot be managed they could be putting other children at risk if they were required to deal with an incident. Therefore this may lead to a bar on a child attending.

WanderingStar1 · 22/04/2017 22:54

OP I am so sorry you are going through this! My son has ASD and ADHD and was diagnosed at 4, he has a 1:1 TA and we tickle along reasonably. He is now Yr 4 and they have a 2 day residential coming up (longer one in Yr 6) and the head did suggest I might pick him up each evening and take him home. However he has just done a similar one with cubs with no major problems - and with far less trained or experienced support available - so I am going to go for the whole thing - and the school will be supportive I am sure. As your son has only just been diagnosed I would hazard a guess that his behaviour is no worse than my son's - and as you say, they should know by now what the key triggers might be! I think it's appalling they are suddenly changing their minds about him going at this late stage, if they thought he was manageable a few months ago then nothing should change now he has a diagnosis! Plus I should pull him out of the SATs and tell them it's too stressful for him - the tests are only for the school - not beneficial for the child in any way; his secondary school will reassess him anyway. Stick to your guns - and maybe contact your local NAS support group, mine is brilliant! Good luck.... Wine

bigmack · 22/04/2017 23:02

'I sometimes challenge how budgets are spend. One big example of this, as I alluded to earlier, is the spending of Pupil Premium money as SEN funds something pretty much every school I know does. They do it because the paltry amount of SEN funding does not cover how many TAs you need, let alone cash for adjustments'

PP children are more likely to have SEN so increased spending on SEN makes sense.

oldbirdy · 22/04/2017 23:05

We are kind of going round in circles here.
We know the legal position. This child has a diagnosis covered by the Equality act. The school therefore has a legal obligation to consider how to make reasonable adjustments to enable him to attend as much of the residential as is possible. This is the law. There are circumstances in which he could be determined not to attend but this would require more than the op has described in terms of behaviour from her son and planning by the school. This specific instance is covered by law so people with opinions about how reasonable the school is need to take that law in to account.

rumblingDMexploitingbstds · 22/04/2017 23:15

So teachers who state that they wouldn't take children who 'won't follow instructions' - would you refuse to take a child with PDA?

Without knowing the specific child, their specific needs, the specific place and activities and the staffing resources available, how do I know? Grin No two children have identical needs!

That the OP likes and trusts this school enough that she's happy to trust her vulnerable child to them on a residential, plus the fact that the school have been keen and planning for him to go until this incident makes it clear the school isn't evil or non inclusive, this sounds like a breakdown in communication. Something has changed. As the OP says, she needs to talk with them about what, look with them at the risk assessment, see what risks are they seeing as too great, and hopefully she can help them find possible solutions.

Redsrule · 22/04/2017 23:45

What so many of the posters are forgetting is that trips like this only happen because the staff are going unpaid. Getting additional staff would be very difficult at this late stage.

Also the increased behavioural difficulties might not just be SATs, that is an assumption, it could also be age/hormonal/thought of secondary school etc etc. I cannot imagine, as the OP has said, that the school want to exclude the boy, just that there are concerns at his ability to cope. The fact children are not sen does not mean they do not also have needs so the whole cohorts needs have to be assessed.

Trifleorbust · 23/04/2017 02:51

bigmack:

I wouldn't refuse to take a child 'with PDA', no. I would look at the trip and the risks, and if taking that child couldn't be made safe, etc.

Trifleorbust · 23/04/2017 02:57

Astro55:

If only! children are generally entitled to mainstream education. Unless parents support a move to a special school (I hate that term!) there isn't a lot schools can do without excluding the pupil. The behaviour of an individual pupil can be unmanageable for years within mainstream.

We have a student at my school who walks in and out of lessons basically at will. He will not follow staff instructions. He verbally abuses his TAs because he doesn't like to be seen as dependent on them. He throws things and verbally assaults other pupils. Going away within him isn't an option for me. I would refuse to do it.

befuddledgardener · 23/04/2017 04:29

His behaviour has changed as this last term it has been harder for staff to manage. Also it has recently become clear that the incident wasn't a one off. It looks like he needs dedicated 1:1 quite often but has the school been awarded any extra cash to cover his need?

befuddledgardener · 23/04/2017 04:59

PDA - it depends on the extent/nature of meltdowns/avoidance and if funds have been allocated to enable 1:1 support (or 2:1). The school won't have enough cash in its general budget

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