re office cultures where people are expected to work beyond contracted hours

[user1485342611]

Just following on from the 100% attendance thread, AIBU to think there's nothing wrong with working the hours you're contracted to work and then going home and getting on with other things.

There just seems to be a growing attitude that anyone who leaves work at 5.30 every evening lacks ambition or commitment or drive or whatever, even if they're hitting their deadlines and doing the work they're supposed to do.

Obviously, there's times when you have to be flexible and hang on a bit later than usual to get something finished on time, or help a colleague out. But surely that should be the exception rather than the rule?

MrEBear I'd argue that if being home for bathtime, paying less tax and getting child benefit is so important to them, they could find a role where they don't earn the big bucks! All of life is a trade off. Personally I don't think working long hours is good for anyone but I think if someone wants to be earning the kind of salary that takes them into the 40% tax bracket that's their choice. It has to be a balance.

Like a previous poster, I make sure I come into work with 10 minutes to spare, take my full hour lunch break and leave at 5:30pm every evening. During my working hours, I try to be as productive as possible, but that doesn't mean I'm happy to work outside my contracted hours without pay.

I'm a supervisor of a small team and I keep an eye on the times that the other staff are coming and going in terms of making sure that they're taking their full breaks and leaving on time at the end of the day. Any time that they work on top of their contracted hours, I encourage them to leave a bit earlier on a Friday or take a longer lunch.

The way I look at it, we work for a massive multi national company- it's been busy recently, but if we work additional hours without flagging it, there's no impetus for the company to review our staffing levels if we seem happy to work through lunch and come in half an hour early just to get through our work.

Research shows that most office workers only actually work for about 6 hours a day.

I used to work at a place where we were on flexitime. I opted to start about 9.45 so I could take the dog for a good long walk before work. My my ex got home about 4, so this meant she was only left for 6 hours.

There was one objectionable little tosser who was constantly taking the piss, referring to me as a part-timer and asking if I had a half-day when I arrived.

A few times, I started early and I discovered he arrived about 8.20 but didn't do a stroke of work before 10.30. He used to do a round of social calls on practically everyone in the building, with a file in his hand, so it looked like he was working. And he used to pop out during the day to get his hair cut or take his library books back.

I'm salaried. Since I've had dc's I get to work at my start time, take a full lunch and leave on time. My MH and physical health depends on me not sitting there dealing with stress and looking at spreadsheets for any longer than I have to.

I wonder how many of these jobs which routinely expect unpaid extra hours end up paying less than the minimum wage when all hours are taken into account?

My job paid well but I had to sign a waiver saying that I agreed that I agreed not to comply with the EU Working Time Directive. I've worked in other European countries in the same industry and they also work late/start early.

I used to work 8am until 10pm, alone 6 days a week so no breaks, all for a whopping 15,000 then got pushed out of my job when I had a disabled child, my relationship broke down and i couldnt commit the same amount to my job, overheard my boss discussing how I wasn't pulling my weight anymore.

9-5 jobs don't exist in my industry so my 12 years of experience is utterly worthless

I agree that it's a real bind when you're in a job that you could do in half the time/at other times, but have to sit there just because it's 9am or 5pm. Mind you, "I only work my contracted hours" types can be a darned nuisance. I had an employee once who was found to have disappeared, leaving something done that - shock horror! - caused a problem with a national television show . The next morning I gave him a dressing down, saying that he could have said something, or stayed another hour and come in later next day or whatever. He said he had to be there for his dcs' bath time. Now, very laudable indeed, but to be so inflexible that he couldn't miss it once, or the bath time couldn't be delayed... to my mind that was sheer bloodymindedness and was noted .

Do thoroughly agree with those people who mess about all day, take a huge lunch hour but suddenly are terribly busy, running their hands through their hair and talking about "stress"... at 6.30pm when they know the boss is passing through...

Genuine question, @UppityHumpty:

In my industry, you won't get far with a 9-5 mentality. I usually work 7:30-6 when I'm in the office but am able to balance things as needed when I work from home. Work from home is tough though - I usually do my full working day plus evenings when kids gone to bed. Sometimes I'll do urgent work on the weekends to but that's rare.

Is this worth it to you? I have been there too and for the time I did it, it was. My priorities are now different [note I am not saying better, just different], and I no longer do, and that works for me now too.

My general point is that for some people this is what they get fulfilment from; for others, it is completely the opposite, so I'd be interested to hear your take on it.

Wow, I'm so glad I work part time. All my hours are accounted for, so if I work extra time from home I claim them as overtime or in lieu. I used to work in a 'lunch is for the weak' environment and I just think sod that, life is too short for that kind of corporate bollocks.

As a result I've been with my current company for over eight years and I give them my best and am flexible when needed. Treat your employees well and you get to keep them.

NapQueen- it's because the lunch hour is unpaid. If the cultural expectation is that it's considered poor form to take a whole hour, employees are working for free. The company might well want that half hour of labour but if they only offer a half hour lunch break (unpaid) they'd have to pay the other half hour.

Polarbearflavour = I'm CS too and yep Friday after lunch the office is like the Marie Celeste!

I wonder if people factor in the true cost of working hours more each day. By the time you've added in extra tax, national insurance, pension contribution etc, and paid 12 hours per week more for childcare, suddenly the £25k job for 37 hours probably ends up more £ p/h take home than £40k working 60 hours, before you even consider the work life balance.

I agree we've all become brain washed into think it's necessary to do all these extra hours - but then if you look at other countries, whose GDP is similar to hours (if not better in the case of Germany) but whose average work hours are much less, it doesn't seem like its working out great for us on a wider scale, let alone an individual one. Going back to teaching again, at the moment I 100% believe that schools do function on the basis of teachers, TAs and other stuff doing unpaid overtime and would be screwed if they all decided to work to rule - but if teachers in Europe don't work these crazy hours but children still have similar educational results in world league tables then it suggested that a huge amount of the (paper)work teachers have to do here is, basically, unnecessary.

Saying all this - I still don't understand what people find to do in an hour long lunch break though. Usually 20 mins is more than enough to heat up and eat soup/sandwich while having a chat, maybe 30 if there's a queue for the microwave.

I'm starting looking for a new job this weekend because I am so done with this exact thing.

Well, mine is due to chronic understaffing and clients who we have to pretend to that we're not understaffed. But fuck this for a packet of beans - I work bloody hard but I do not need the constant pressure.

I work in an industry known for long hours (headhunting) and just about work my contracted hours, which are 9-6 so a long day anyway. I usually do 8.30-6.30, but sometimes longer days. If people I need to speak to are in other time zones that's just they way it is, and deadlines are deadlines. I always take my (paid) hour lunch break though, I need that space. Many of my colleagues work longer days though.

I'm hopefully moving into a new job where I know I'll be working longer hours, but for much more money. I am on a potential six figures senior career track and I want it, so I'm prepared to put the hours in. I don't have children though, and DP and I are both committed to a 'focus on our careers' stage of our lives. I see my colleagues with kids and know it's harder, they're on their emails all evening, the senior women always have full time nannies.

In principle I agree, but the problem comes when there's an important deadline, and one member of staff is first out of the door meaning others have to stay even later. It causes a lot of resentment, and is completely contrary to being a team player.

I've always worked long hours and whilst I don't see it as ideal, the work always comes in peaks and troughs, meaning it's impossible to manage everything smoothly to leave on time every day.

I think it depends on the individual, the role and the office culture.

I've worked longer than contracted hours every day when I've loved the job/office or was trying to get noticed for promotion.

Currently doing a job with low pay, no opportunities for progression and that I can easily do within the contracted hours, so I go home on the dot every day.

*can i politely ask the teachers who have contributed to the thread ...
what hours are you contracted to work each week ?
and as you are paid over the school holidays, does that mean that you should be working those same hours each of the weeks the children are on holidays ( minus of course the weeks you take annual leave) ?
would you say , honestly that if you averaged out the hours you work in a year to say 47 weeks ( allowing for 5 weeks AL) that you worked excessively more than your contracted hours ?

I am genuinely interested and do not know what contracted hrs for teachers are ?*

I am contracted to 35 hours a week for 195 days a year (190 teaching and 5 inset). That's 39 weeks a year.
That leaves 170 days in the year left, including weekends. I cannot work 104 days a year as they are weekends. The remaining 66 are either classed as holiday or school closure. We are not paid for any of the 170 days whether they are weekends, leave or closure days.

My monthly salary is based on the 39 working weeks at 35 hours a week split in to 12 equal payments. Along with my 170 unpaid days I am also working, on average, an additional of 3 extra days unpaid each week (20ish hours a week). So no I don't believe I should have to work over my unpaid holidays to average put my unpaid extra work to complete my workload.

Teachers also aren't paid for their 15 minute break or 45 minute lunch.

@ShotsFired - it's definitely worth it. It gives us the lifestyle we want. It won't be forever - might as well make hay while the sun shines

Glad you are making hay of it all, and I hope you make plenty more than you need for when your requirements change @UppityHumpty!

@ShotsFired - looking at retirement in 10 years hopefully so maybe.

Where I work people can theoretically work part time but in practice it's rare. IMO that is because managers are happy to expect full timers to work unpaid overtime but if you're only paying someone 21 hours a week they are not going to be prepared to work more hours.

I've always been employed in large corporations where long hours are the norm. But one employer was great- if you came in late not a problem as long as you let someone know, ditto going home. We all loved working there.

I have recently been offered a 3 month contract (unlikely to be on going work) and they offered a flat day rate, but then later asked for 10hour days. The contract also had to include standard government terms stating a full week is 38 hours. I refused to do 50+hours.

Working for free- that;s what extra hours are- only makes the company richer. Why can't we do a good days work for a good days pay and if more hours are needed- employ someone else. Many people would love part time opportunities.

It's a load of bollocks.

Just think of all the extra jobs that would be created if people worked their contracted hours.

Mystery cat I like your style