re office cultures where people are expected to work beyond contracted hours

[user1485342611]

Just following on from the 100% attendance thread, AIBU to think there's nothing wrong with working the hours you're contracted to work and then going home and getting on with other things.

There just seems to be a growing attitude that anyone who leaves work at 5.30 every evening lacks ambition or commitment or drive or whatever, even if they're hitting their deadlines and doing the work they're supposed to do.

Obviously, there's times when you have to be flexible and hang on a bit later than usual to get something finished on time, or help a colleague out. But surely that should be the exception rather than the rule?

It depends, in my industry we speak with many people outside of their chore office hours, so I am better off being early and staying late, whilst middle of the day is calm. I don't have to, but most of my salary is commission based, so it's my own interest to get as many deals as possible.

Fridays are pretty dead because a big chunk of my clients are in the Middle East.

I am also treated like a grown-up, and I am obviously working more than my basic requirements. If I need to take a few hours off for a dentist appointment or to have my hair done no one bats an eyelid. If I was a clock watcher, I would have no flexibility whatsoever, it works both ways.

My dsis has a vv senior job in a big bank. Her view (and always has been) if you can't do the job in the hours, you are either inefficient or tye job is too big for one person. She is always being head hunted.
I agree and am often brought into deal with stressed (and therefore inefficient) people. In France they work less hours and are more productive. Being away from the office gives you perspective and better ideas in my opinion.

I really dislike the term 'clock watcher'. It implies that there is something wrong about keeping an eye on the time and the hours you're working and in general working the hours you're paid to work.

It's language like that which creates unhealthy working environments, in my opinion.

We work 9-5. It's a career not a job. Also public sector. No expectations that we should work later except during big campaigns and when we do we get time off in lieu as standard.

Far healthier. Great balance. Not bad salary and decent holidays.

Reading this, I feel very lucky.

Elinor I'm with you. It was 'if I work, I get paid'. But I had a Govt, union-covered job.

I'm in the US, so it may be different, but I'd say here it started when there was an economic downturn. It all has to do with the 'supply vs demand' mindset of employers saying "You don't want to work a 10 hour day for 8 hours pay? Fine, but remember that jobs are scarce and there are 20 people standing right behind you that WILL". The problem is that it's true.

I work in consultancy and the whole business model is based on people working more hours than they're paid for.

Consultancies sell time. To be competitive, they price jobs deliberately tightly. If they don't do that, there's always an agency who does and guess who the client chooses?

So, you can be the most efficient person in all the land, but it's just not possible to do 8 hours work in 4 and maintain quality.

If I've delivered what I'm supposed to deliver then I'd be off I wouldn't hang around and make myself look busy to impress anyone. But tbh I haven't seen that culture for a very long time which makes me think you possibly work for a company that has other issues has well. Is there workplace bullying too?

Ours is pretty respectful. People treat each other like grown ups. No one is keeping tabs on anyone else that sort of thing.

I'm just repeating what pp have said but, essentially teachers get paid term time + inset which is just spread throughout the year. Yes everyone is entitled to however many days paid holiday per year, this was accomplished via a paper exercise for teachers that included no extra holiday or extra pay.

Teachers contracts historically had directed hours eg actual teaching, meetings, inset etc and then any other time that is required to fulfil your duties. So they own your ass! That's assuming you aren't in an academy.

I was in primary and was easily working 60-70 hours a week. I think 58/60 is about the norm. That can be much higher or lower depending on the school. Is it in special measures, bandwagon head, evil head, lots of SN etc

Who ever said teachers should just stop and not put up with it, we are. We're just leaving. Strikes don't get much support from the public or media.

I don't know how a thread entitled "Re OFFICE HOURS where..." got onto teachers so quickly. Teachers do love a good moan, I suppose

I had a manager who said 'you walk in for 9 and clock out at 5 and take full hour for your lunch, hardly showing a commitment I want you to do some extra hours' I calkedbyo hr and asked why my manager was demanding unpaid hours. He couldn't even deny it as I'd sent an e-msil just to 'clarify our conversation'. He never mentioned it again.

YouBloody, TBF I think it started with someone asking about teachers' pay and hours across a year, not with a teacher themselves moaning.

I work part time and spend the day clock watching and panicking as I know I have to leave at a particular time to pick DCs up from school. It's quite stressful when you know that there is just no way that you can stay on to finish something and there is pressure from above. I'm trying to know my limits and let my bosses know if something just can't happen in the time the expect. The trouble is I don't say this often enough and end up trying to squeeze a full time job into part time hours.

Dh used to be HM Forces, where you just work til it's done. He now works in a defence related office, where the culture is the same, and sometimes that means getting home at 2200; or going in at weekends. His boss is always in at weekends, and doesn't seem to have a life outside the office. Whilst I understand the need to get the job done, and the remuneration package is excellent, it sometimes smacks of presenteeism to me.

I was offered a job recently for £7000 per annum more than I get paid now. The new job started an hour earlier and finished an hour later than my current job and I was also expected to be more "flexible" with what hours I would put in.

I sat and worked it out and basically I would have been no better off financially by taking the new job once I had taken the extra hours and the additional travelling time. Money isn't everything and I have a son to get home to (single parent) and therefore I need to know what time I'm going to finish work every night. I can't just work late, even if I wanted to.

Research shows that most office workers only actually work for about 6 hours a day.

I find this very easy to believe. For a time, while DD was young, I worked 30 hours a week over five short days, i.e. 9.30 to 5.30 with an hour for lunch. I swear I got as much done as anyone else. Typically most people's first half hour was taken up with gossip, making a coffee etc. by the time I got in they had all settled down to work so I would get in and get straight on with things. The last hour they were mostly winding down anyway.

Most places I have worked there has been a culture that you do extra if necessary but not as a matter of course. However, I think the culture comes from above and trickles down. Years ago I worked on some projects where the PM was a workaholic and certainly then people who regularly left on time were viewed with disfavour.

I remember in a junior role that one of my peers got a good review because he regularly did a couple of hours overtime a day. However, I managed to do just as much work as him in my normal hours but stupid PM didn't seem to notice.

9.30 to 4.30 should have been

In my job, working extra hours is the norm and expected. Management would never say that out loud, but I know that is what they think (but do they do it?! Different question!). It's so frustrating, because I stay late and then come home and work just to get the job done. It's a classic example of there being too much work for those doing it, but because we all go the extra mile, we get the attitude of "Well, you always coped before"!

it sometimes smacks of presenteeism to me

Not to mention bad staff/time management. If people have to work that much, they obviously need more employees. Whoever is at the top of the organisation/company must be rubbing their hands with glee that they've managed to persuade so few people to spend so much time making more money for them. After all, why hire the CORRECT number of employees if your current ones are stupid/impressionable enough to work all hours of the week for the same salary?

I am self-employed now because the presenteeism culture at my old job was incompatible with childcare.

The only people who progressed were those who had partners (generally women) who were able to work long hours into the evening or whose joint income was enough to pay for a nanny. Single parents were - and still are - fucked.

The boss at my husband's workplace walk around the office and switch off any pcs still on at 5. They are basically thrown out at 5! Not a british company.

My job is a bit of a funny one as it's extremely seasonal. So for about 3-4 months of the year, I will be working whatever hours are required to get the job done. Normally 50-60 hours. But for the rest of the year, it's basically 9-5 and I can be pretty flexible (work from home etc if need be.) I feel like the flexibility compensates for the shitty quarter of the year!

At my last job I regularly worked 60-80 hours per week. They made me redundant and moved the office overseas to save money. They then realised they couldn't find anyone cheap with my specific skill set and qualifications. I now work as a contractor ( and have other clients too), bill them for every hour I work and get paid roughly double the rate I was on as an employee.

DH is now working for a company who are very strict on hours - you do your hours then you go home and are not expected at all to do anything outside of the office (except in extreme circumstances). He's in a relatively senior position and really struggled to start with! Everywhere he's worked before has been you do as many hours as needed to get projects done and would frequently sort emails/have conf calls in evenings and weekends.

But it's had such a huge impact on his wellbeing and stress levels as well as a much better work/life balance. And he feels his standard of work is probably higher as he gets time to properly switch off.

Will add this isn't in the U.K. abd the CEO and the board lead by example and will go around checking everyone's getting ready to go home

Yanbu.

I actually think employees shouldn't click watch during their work because it's unrealistic to think the day will literally work that way!

However more and more it's becoming expected and the Mack of flexibility the other way doesn't exist.

I work in a school on a contract that specifies hours. Lots of employees have an hours specific contract.

We are often asked if we could volunteer to help with x y and z after hours - it there a little longer filing, waiting with a late collected student.
The other week after having worked 2 hours above my contracted hours over a 2 week period I asked if on 2 of the days I could leave 5 minutes early as ds had important appointments and I'd miss the school traffic making the whole journey about 10 minutes shorter.

I was told yes - as long as I filled out an official request for absence from as I'm contracted until X time.

I didn't leave early - and I've made it quite clear that as I finish at that time I will leave that time from now on and any "can you just do x" will only be done if I'm paid.

I'm usually quite a laid back soft person but this was a piss take too far.