AIBU to not understand why "normal" people vote Tory?

[olddogsnewtricks]

OK, so I'll probably get flamed for this but am genuinely interested! All the people I know who vote Tory are pretty well off so use private schools and healthcare. As a family we need the NHS and we need a good education system - and I can't see them getting any better under the Tories. Are these just not priorities for Tory voters or do they really believe they will improve even with a Conservative government?

After reading more of posts I think that people are not really attempting to answer OP's question.

Which is why do people vote for a party which will leave them worse off in terms of education, health and social care.

It really is in my belief beyond a shadow of a doubt that the conservatives have a clear manifesto of cutting the social state in all its forms. This means more cuts to the NHS, education and welfare.

Many people seem to buy into this idea that the Labour government will give all the nations money to people on benefits but this is a proven fallacy.

I can see why people who are well off vote conservative as it is self serving but why so many of the nations poorest do I think is a very important question.

I have read half the posts in this thread and I am still yet to see one reason why voting for a conservative will help people who are not in the high earning brackets.

I can see why people who are well off vote conservative as it is self serving but why so many of the nations poorest do I think is a very important question.

I have read half the posts in this thread and I am still yet to see one reason why voting for a conservative will help people who are not in the high earning brackets.

Low-paid people still pay taxes. Maybe they'd like to pay less. Maybe they have faith in their ability to keep a job and get up and get to it every day, perhaps even ascend the ranks, and they don't like their children seeing a lot of anti-social behaviour related to unemployment in their neighbourhood.

You might not agree with them, but you can see how this particular type of low-paid worker might vote Tory.

GloriaGilbert I respect your right to a personal opinion and your attempt to answer the question but this answer does not make much sense to me in isolation.

Does this mean you believe that you would like to see the social state denied recieve even less funding as in more education and NHS cuts so that families can pay for what they can afford in terms of healthcare and education to use two examples?

Also, on a purely selfish note, the Tory party are good for business. If they are in power that is good for business and good for the economy. If businesses are doing well there are more jobs and more people get to keep their jobs.

I'm sorry if I sound like a selfish ignorant twat but my employer has not done that well over the last year (partly due to brexit), we had a redundancy programme and I nearly lost my job. If we have a Tory government and a more stable economy there is less chance of me and my colleagues losing our jobs and having our houses repossessed.

So yes I will be voting Tory again. To me it signifies safety and stability. Sorry if it makes me a knobhead. Unfortunately I'll just have to be a knobhead.

"Low-paid people still pay taxes. Maybe they'd like to pay less. Maybe they have faith in their ability to keep a job and get up and get to it every day, perhaps even ascend the ranks, and they don't like their children seeing a lot of anti-social behaviour related to unemployment in their neighbourhood.

You might not agree with them, but you can see how this particular type of low-paid worker might vote Tory."

So are you saying that people vote conservative in the hope that they will be better off in the future and join the more wealthy minority that benefit for many conservative policies.

In terms of antis-social behaviour I do not see how conservative policies work to decrease this. They cut after school programs, education and social projects which seems likely to do the opposite.

In fact I would say that the conservative policies lead to less social mobility and therefore increase the wealth divide which in turn leads to more alienation and anti-social behaviour.

I'm sorry if I sound like a selfish ignorant twat but my employer has not done that well over the last year (partly due to brexit), we had a redundancy programme and I nearly lost my job.

So yes I will be voting Tory again. To me it signifies safety and stability.

May I ask, when you were studying in school and they were teaching critical thinking....did they go over things like logic?

Because it seems like to me that your statements don't follow. Seeking stability, you are choosing the party that caused the instability.

I look back over a life I think much longer than most of the mums on here. To a time when I believe people were more independent and shifted more for themselves. The health service was an organisation you used when you were sick and couldn't treat yourself with over the counter medicine and learned wisdom. I clearly remember my dad lancing abcesses and applying poltices made from wet bread and guess what, it always worked!

No nursery places then except for single working mums and children went to school at 5. At that age not only were they capable of looking after their toiletting needs, they could dress themselves and most could write their own name, knew the alphsbet and could count to 10 and recognise the numbers. Just as well as classes were as many as 46 and no TAs.

Most mums didn't work but everyone had 'home jobs'. Outwork for local factories for which they were paid piece rates. In the evenings when the children were in bed, mums and dads laboured away making ironing boards, lampshades, leather belts and all manner of things.

Grow your own was a necessity to help make ends meet and everyone seemed to have an allotment. Cooking from scratch, well there was no other way!

No one wants to see a return to those days but there was some very good features and a different attitude in the people that successive governments have eroded away. We have too much government now in my opinion. People are almost not allowed to think for themselves. A welfare safety net is a vital thing. When it becomes too much of a crutch it is a damaging thing.

I'm not saying they didn't cause the instability, I'm saying that the alternative options won't solve the instability.

"the Tory party are good for business"

In my opinion this is just another soundbite dreamed up by conservative marketeers.

I see no proof that the conservatives have grown our economy or support small businesses.

We have too much government now in my opinion. People are almost not allowed to think for themselves. A welfare safety net is a vital thing. When it becomes too much of a crutch it is a damaging thing.

YY.

I'm not sure about whether they'd like to see cuts or not, pumpkin (I doubt it, we can agree there) - but they might see the problem with the NHS or education in its current state as not one of funding but rather behaviour. Their housing situation almost certainly means they have a lot better insight into this than a higher-paid worker.

This is an attitude that you'd typically associate with conservatives (small c) and I don't believe it's absent amongst lower-paid workers.

So are you saying that people vote conservative in the hope that they will be better off in the future and join the more wealthy minority that benefit for many conservative policies.

This statement has been entirely coloured by your opinion.

Smug, arrogant question. And probably part of the reason the party is doing so well

There's been a few people here expressing the belief that the NHS is ticking over. As the wife of an NHS doctor can I just put you right please? This is the worst it's ever been. It's not ticking over, it's failing, and it's failing through cuts. We hardly ever see him at the moment because there's big gaps in rotas, or he's attending emergency meetings about how the Trust can possibly get through the crisis. My neighbours are paramedics, they're talking about leaving their jobs because so much of their time is being spent outside hospital trying to get their patient in when A&E is overflowing.

It's not working. If anyone reading this gives any care towards their health provision then don't vote Tory. Tactically vote for anyone else to get them out.

And for those who care about business interests and the economy first, your ability to engage in business or earn money is directly linked to the state of your health. Health is everything. But you're voting against the organisation that is responsible for looking after your health if you vote Tory.

There's a hundred other reasons why I agree with the OP but this is the one I feel people are totally ignoring when they vote for Theresa May.

Interesting article:
www.getintothis.co.uk/2015/05/unchanging-tides-the-oddity-of-the-working-class-tories/

The Tory party hasn't been good for my business. Now admittedly it is rather niche (providing a service to academics working in a particular area) but it was thriving until the last year.

I did pick up a new client yesterday - from North America.

I suspect the downturn in my fortunes tells you something about the effect Tory policy has had on universities (and god knows how damaged they are going to be by Brexit).

I am a labour voter. I have family members who are Tory voters. They are good people with a great concern about doing the right and the moral thing.
My interpretation of some of their thoughts:

The NHS isn't in a new crisis. It's faced crises of similar magnitude for many years and these have always been due to inefficiency and mismanagement. I'd don't know how they feel they can state this as fact without evidence, but they do.

They believe it's a fallacy to suggest that Labour have the monopoly on virtue and charity.

They think that we shouldn't be over reliant on the state. They believe that the Tories have an appropriate safety net for the more vulnerable and that claims that they haven't are exaggerated.

They are Brexit through and through. EU is too large, undemocratic and corrupt.

They think that labour supporters are the most hypocritical and least moral people of all. If they were truely virtuous, they would vote Tory for the betterment of the country.

They want caps on immigration and are concerned about terrorism.

They have a great love and respect for the armed forces. They think that only the tories respect what the armed forces do.

"I'm not sure about whether they'd like to see cuts or not, pumpkin (I doubt it, we can agree there)"

I am not sure what you mean by this but I can not see why it would be a sticky point as I imagine very few lower income families if any want to see less funding for the NHS and education system simply because they will in the vast majority of cases not have an option of going private. I genuinely do not see how a strong argument against this can be made.

"So are you saying that people vote conservative in the hope that they will be better off in the future and join the more wealthy minority that benefit for many conservative policies."

"This statement has been entirely coloured by your opinion."

Whilst of course you are right that this statement is coloured by my opinion it is also the only logical leap I can make when you state that lower income families vote conservative in an effort to strive for a better life when conservative policies clearly benefit the more wealthy in society.

I must say I do respect your opinion and beleive the world would be a better place if we could have more discussions like this with out a judgemental/defensive attitude.

I must say I do respect your opinion and beleive the world would be a better place if we could have more discussions like this with out a judgemental/defensive attitude.

Ditto.

Okay after reading you post again and Corialanusburts I see that people may not be agianst cuts to the NHS as they see the issue with it being mismanagement.

But surely if this is the case then it is the Tories who are ultimately on control of the NHS and are therefore the ones mismanaging it?

Thanks for asking this question,OP. Ive been thinking about this a lot. I've voted Tory before because I trusted them with the economy more than I did Labour. I didn't do a ton of research and the small world around me seemed fairly secure and I wanted things to stay that way.

However, since Brexit I feel as if the scales have fallen from my eyes. I'm much better informed, better read and much more aware of what's happening around me. Frankly most of that is because of the direct effect cuts are having on me and mine. I'm a bit ashamed to say that it it's amazing how blind we can be to things that don't effect us. I'm now a regular hospital user, my DS has started school and I feel furious and voiceless about the NHS and education cuts and Brexit. My complacency is completely shattered and I also feel much more aware of the suffering of others under this government (the disabled, overworked medical staff, raped women who have to fill out forms to get child support etc etc etc).

But I also can't get my head around voting for the stories because they will provide financial stability. I'm sorry, but THAT SHIP HAS SAILED. This Tory party is proposing leaving the single market and the customs union, against the advice of the vast majority of the business community and banks. The pound has fallen through the floor. We are wholly unprepared for EU negotiations. So the continued belief that the Tories know what they're doing? I don't understand it either.

I am not sure what you mean by this but I can not see why it would be a sticky point as I imagine very few lower income families if any want to see less funding for the NHS and education system simply because they will in the vast majority of cases not have an option of going private. I genuinely do not see how a strong argument against this can be made.

I agree that they are unlikely to be in a position to go privately, although their ability to affect that outcome is something we would almost certainly disagree on.

More likely, I think a low-paid worker who votes Tory probably takes the view that the NHS is overrun with a lot of self-inflicted illness and they might like to see a squeeze on A&E admissions related to alcohol, gastric bypasses, mobility scooters and the like on the basis that they feel it's highly unlikely they'd need those services.

One example.

'I love the way people call Tory voters 'thick' when the irony is most of them will have had a better education and have a better standard of living than the average Labour voter'

It's not ironic at all. I have quite a few friends who are academics and doctors. Two academics who went to Oxbridge are both left wingers - one of them the editor of a well known left wing publication.

Some people seem to think that voting Conservative is aspirational but it's not it's just snobbish. Wanting to look down on people less fortunate. Hardly intelligent.

"I agree that they are unlikely to be in a position to go privately, although their ability to affect that outcome is something we would almost certainly disagree on.

"More likely, I think a low-paid worker who votes Tory probably takes the view that the NHS is overrun with a lot of self-inflicted illness and they might like to see a squeeze on A&E admissions related to alcohol, gastric bypasses, mobility scooters and the like on the basis that they feel it's highly unlikely they'd need those services.

One example."

You make a very good point and I do see why this argument is convincing to some.

But there some huge fails in this logic.

The truth is that not everyone can be wealthy and be in the top 10% of earners. While we all might have the innate ability to do so capitalist economics does simply not work this way. So if we take this as a given there will always be people who do not have the earning capacity of others as someone has to have "lesser jobs".

Do we really want to live in a society where we simply say well you COULD be a high earner if you really wanted to be and worked hard enough. As your not you will have to make do with what we are willing to provide to you even if it is not adequate to educate your children or help you if for some horrid reason your health fails you and leaves you unable to work?

If this is the case who will be our nurses, TA's, care workers?

We could in theory I guess all by wealthy if we had enough immigration to do all the jobs that did pay enough for UK nationals. But then this would lead to an underclass of immigrants who would be the sole users of a bare bones social state as well as anyone who fell on hard times or had health issues and no family support.

It just seems when you get to the root of it all, when people try and explain why it always comes down to scapegoating. The abusers of the NHS, the immigrants taking our valuable resources, the benefits cheats.

What about the banks that led to the huge bail out?

What about the avoidance of tax by huge multinationals?

What about the £205 billion for trident? Which by its deterrent nature is designed not to be actually used.

Would this not be a better route to providing more income for the government than making cuts to benefits, education and the NHS.

I am not a tory voter but my area is a Tory stronghold. Those I know vote blue tend to fall for all the spiel about scroungers, immigrants stealing jobs etc. In fact the biggest threat to the Tories in this area was UKIP, so it is a very right leaning area. All the 'workers vs shirkers' talk seems to ring true for many here.

I must say I do respect your opinion and beleive the world would be a better place if we could have more discussions like this with out a judgemental/defensive attitude.

I agree, if the OP was Can I persuade Tory voters to vote Labour then it could promote a sensible discussion. However yet again it's the same old goady, 'You are stupid/thick/racist' type threads.