To think that celebrating the anniversary of someone's death..

[Itisnoteasybeingdifferent]

Is very nasty regardless of who the person was?

So there have been a number of very devisive politicians. And quite a few who carried out mass murder. But to mark the anniversary of their passing as a cause for celebration?

I ask because someone posted a comment (on another forum) about having champaign on ice to celebrate the death of a well known politician a few days ago.

The issue isn't celebrating someone's death because you feel appalled by their actions.

The issue is being crass enough to do it out loud.

If you're the type who wants to celebrate someone's death then maybe a moment of quiet retrospection rather than the "ding dong the witch is dead" schtick

I don't think it's crass. I think it's understandable. I would perhaps perceive it as crass were it someone a touch less divisive. But it isn't and when you put yourself up for public office you are considered fair game, the respect or lack of doesn't end when you die. I have a complete and utter lack of respect for the woman and her cruelly held beliefs and policies, that doesn't make me crass. It doesn't make me crass when I celebrate the fact that she is no longer here to influence, although her influence (unfortunately) lives on, it makes me human.

When Castro died, people celebrated in Cuba. When Stalin died, people celebrated.

But their deaths meant the end of their regime - Thatcher's 'regime' was over long before she died. I don't think anyone has an issue with those who said they celebrated when she lost power.

Yes, but Thatcher dying felt like a weight had been lifted. Lots of damaging stuff was being held back until she died, to protect her reputation. How do you think the Hillsborough families felt when they finally got the verdict they'd known to be true for 27 years? Overjoyed, but angry that the person who covered it up had basically gotten away with it.

Whilst Thatcher was alive, she was still being lauded as some sort of icon. It took her death for all the seedy stuff to come out - the fact that she in all likelihood knew about Jimmy Savile and Cyril Smith, but looked the other way because of their 'charitable' efforts. That she personally knew and aided in the cover ups of Hillsborough and Orgreave.

It doesn't make me crass when I celebrate the fact that she is no longer here to influence

Honestly? Celebrating that she is no longer in power/in politics is a completely understandable thing.

Celebrating an old woman's death years after her political career was over is just a horrible thing.

JacquesHammer

Presumably your life was never effected by her policies. In which case, you don't get to tell people how they live their lives. I've said it twice before, but I saw grown women crying over winning a tin of stewed steak all because of her. When you've seen that, or seen your mum begging the electricity board not to turn off the electric because she couldn't afford to pay the bill, you can talk.

Presumably your life was never effected by her policies. In which case, you don't get to tell people how they live their lives

Massive assumption!

And I am not telling people how to live their lives. I am saying celebrating a death is crass. If people want to do it their choice. Doesn't mean I have to think it's anything other than horrible.

A horrible person who has left victims should not have their passing celebrated on the anniversary of their death. You can remember their victims though.

Why is it horrible? Why is it crass? Why do we have to have respect for the dead? She was lucky, she led a privileged life, prospered in her marriage and her chosen careers. She was lucky to die an old woman, there are many young deaths, quite a few she crassly abused and covered up, those that died at Hillsborough didn't have the privilege of living to an old age. Many in the communities she destroyed died far younger than they should of have done due to her destructions. Crass is her cover up of Hillsborough. Crass is her lies (now uncovered) about the Coal Board. Crass was her depriving those who needed it most of food and shelter. I do not have to think well of or respect the dead and the manner of my choosing to celebrate/commemorate said passing, within my own home is my choice. I'm not dancing on the streets, tempting though it is.

It depends. If the person committed evil acts, such as terrorism or child abuse, then I see no harm in "celebrating" their death. If the person did nothing wrong - nothing more than the usual fuck ups we all make - then celebrating a death would be utterly reprehensible.

Even then, it depends on how someone affected an individual. I wouldn't "celebrate" Hitler's death, for example, because it happened generations ago. But with someone like Saddam Hussein, I was rather pleased to view the footage!

I find the "champagne on ice" idea a bit sick, but if when () my abusive brother dies, I might take a different view.

But... I would usually never admit to someone that I was delighted by a death, it's a private matter and I would not want to risk upsetting those who were closer to the person. There is a time and a place and I think it should be in private, even for controversial figures like Nicola Sturgeon, Tony Blair or Margaret Thatcher. These characters were/are very divisive, as with Martin McGuinness there are plenty of people who see them as heroes instead of villains.

Why is it horrible? Why is it crass? Why do we have to have respect for the dead

My earlier post explained. No-one is saying don't feel what you want at someone's death.

But I just find any sort of general outpouring of "im glad someone's dead, ha fucking ha" type post are just awful.

I just couldn't be the type of person who would do that.

Well said Dawn. All this she was an old woman, it's crass celebrating her death etc is just crap. Becoming and dying is just a fact of life and doesn't change the fact she was evil. Her "regime" may well have been over but she is the sole reason the Tories were decimated in Scotland and have never recovered.

We're different people, Jacques, neither better nor worse than the other. Just different.
I have never understood the public outpouring of grief concerning Princess Diana. I found it awful. As I said, just different people.

JacquesHammer

That's why I suggested you were never effected by her policies. If you were, you'd see why we can be the "type of person" who celebrates a death.

I don't care if she was old, or that she had dementia, or that she was someone's mother or wife.

She personally signed off on policies that she knew would harm millions, would destroy communities and would ruin the country. She didn't care. That's why I was overjoyed the day she died, and it's why I'll be celebrating next year if I remember.

The world is a better place without some people in it. I don't see a problem if people care enough to celebrate the anniversary of their departure from it.

No babycham I just find hate a destructive and ugly emotion and it isn't something that I find myself feeling.

You're still making assumptions. You hate. I don't. That's fine. But I can also judge the act of celebrating death as really unpleasant.

Dawn - agree re: Diana. Don't understand massive outpourings of grief.

I notice that a previous poster said that she wasn't so bad, not like Pinochet " Who sent the special police in to torture striking miners".

I was born and brought up in a North East Derbyshire mining village. When the miners strike hit, I was at University in Wales. I came home, the Coal Board Estate was 400 odd yards from my parents home. I was tired, so I went to bed early. Around ten thirty I was woken by loud music coming from the Coal Board Estate. ( I have to say I am partially deaf, and normally sleep through any thing). I went down stairs and asked my parents what was going on. They said that the police routinely came around the estate at this time, blaring out music from loud hailers on the roof of their vans, from ten to about two thirty in the morning, to keep people from sleeping. Last thing I heard, deprivation of sleep was a recognized torture technique.
My friend's mum was a teacher at the local school. They regularly had children passing out at their desks through hunger and lack of sleep.
If I'd have known it was the anniversary of her death I would have set off fireworks, popped corks, and sung "ding dong" as loud as possible.

No babycham I just find hate a destructive and ugly emotion and it isn't something that I find myself feeling

How nice for you. Makes no difference to the validity of other peoples feelings though.

Makes no difference to the validity of other peoples feelings though

No. Like I said. It wasn't about that. It was about how you choose to broadcast those feelings

People can choose to broadcast it how they like. Why should they care what you think about that?

allthelittleangelsriseupriseup

Sounds like my experiences, although I was only 13 during the strike. I distinctly remember loud music being blasted round the coal board houses by the police. Also everything the union said was true - there was a hit list, they were tapping phones and so on. I remember my dad telling us to use the phone box instead of our house phone because he knew the Union leaders were being tapped and as the branch leader lived next door to us, it was a high possibility ours was as well.

Plus, like I said - I remember queuing up with my mum and countless other women who had to swallow their pride and go and ask for a food parcel. God knows what else women and men like my mum and dad had to do, because I know they shielded us kids from a lot of the really bad stuff.

I know there were stories of undercover police joining pickets and trying to provoke violence as well. It wouldn't surprise me. What I saw during that strike has forever tainted my view of the police.

That's why I will celebrate the demise of the ringleader, personally.

Babycham.
Thank you. I must admit that I had almost begun to believe that I had mis remembered what had happened, as I had never heard of someone else experiencing that.
I graduated from my degree in 1985, at which point, of the 3,000 inhabitants of my village, 70% of working age adults were out of work. Took 45 minutes in the queue at the job centre to sign on.
Never forgive that woman.

Hey allthelittleangels and Babycham solidarity to you both. I totally understand how you're feeling and why.

I'm from Merseyside, saw all she did to Liverpool during the '80s when I was growing up. My dad and young brother were at Hillsborough (both unharmed).

We earned that celebration. Read on Facebook that an old school friend was celebrating last Saturday and it reminded me to raise a glass. Ding Dong and all that.

It's the only death I do celebrate, not as if I've made a habit of it. It's the only one I feel this strongly about.

Just this week it's been revealed the women who fell in love with, thought they had married in some cases and certainly had children with police officers acting as spies to infiltrate unions and campaign organisations are still having to fight to find these men to get answers, medical information, to get child maintenance.

Tapping the phones of people who weren't criminals or terrorists but simply disagreed with, campaigned against her and her policies

Had their reputations smeared with completely unfounded allegations of all sorts (while covering up for real criminals).

DECIMATED almost all manufacturing and industry in this country making us STILL very vulnerable economically.

As for the guy Fawkes comments - that absolutely is a celebration of his death! Why on earth do you think an effigy of him is burned? It's 'killing' him as 'he wished to kill others'. Fawkes was actually to be hung, drawn and quartered and hung himself to avoid the torture. Initially 5 Nov was marked by also burning effigies of the pope and other catholic and catholic supporting hate figures. It's an anti-Catholic event.

Sorry meant to include -

I missed it being the anniversary which is kind of more fitting as she doesn't deserve a memory!

I'm scots so don't even get started on how she treated us!

So no I have no problem people celebrating the death of someone who caused much suffering and likely death via political policy. And now we've a 2nd female pm who's looking to turn out even worse!

What does that show the rest of the world about British women in power?!