To think it takes a special kind of arsehole to fuck up wheelchair access?

[CatThiefKeith]

Apologies in advance for the rant, but I've had a particularly bad couple of days with arsehole parkers.

Yesterday I took a lady who has a history of strokes and heart attacks to hospital, where she got some fairly bad news. Our local hospitals disabled bays have one yellow box between every two spaces, and you drive or reverse in, depending which side the wheelchair user needs to get out.

Got back to the car with a very emotional lady to find some Arsehat had parked right over the box on my passenger side, leaving a 4ft gap next to his car where there was no box. Had to leave lady halfway down the car park, pull my car out with the hazards on, get her, get her in, reverse back into my space, then take the wheelchair back to customer services. Wanker.

And now today have taken a different lady to a mobility aids clinic and some utter twat has used the dropped kerb/wheelchair access as a fucking parking space. Both of these fuckers had a blue badge themselves btw.

To top it all off this afternoon took my favourite sweary nonagenarian for afternoon tea in the village and 3 fuckwits had parked over drop kerbs or across pavements. Tossers.

I think all new drivers should have to volunteer to take wheelchair users out and about before getting their license, just so they can see what a monumental pain in the arse it is when ramps are blocked. AIBU?

"I'm not racist, some of my best friends are black."

Taking from that (ridiculous) comment, and the MNHQ post that you've flagged any post that suggest short term need as being disablist rather than a difference of opinion over the word 'need'.

Yes, I have friends who are disabled, I have worked with many children and families affected by disability over the years. That's what I draw my experiences from in the absence of first hand experience. Thankfully, (usually) on MN you don't have to have first hand experience of every issue to develop a view from wider experiences.

You and I have different views over short term needs. That's fine. But don't go comparing a difference of opinion to serious discrimination. That's just disingenuous and inflammatory.

"But don't go comparing a difference of opinion to serious discrimination"

You think disabled people don't experience discrimination?

That's certainly what that sounds like.

You think disabled people don't experience discrimination?
I haven't said that at all! Again, you are placing words into my mouth that I've not said.

Disabled people do, like many groups, experience discrimination.
Fact.

Differences of opinion that revolve around the idea of short term need, however, is not discrimination at all. (Just like discussing issues on trans threads isn't transphobic, discussion about different views of gender isn't sexist)

To take difference of opinion and link it to things like 'I can't e racist because I have black friends' is quite illogical.

I have 2 wheelchair children and once parked in a bay that went sideways on so parallel parked with room behind to get ramp out. It was a proper marked up disabled bay with yellow hatching behind to allow for room for ramp,
Some tool parked a smart car forward facing in the yellow hatched area and half on the verge about 6 inches from my bumper thereby blocking me in as there was a car in front and stopping me getting ramp out. So had to wait for person in bay in front to return so i could get my car out.
It happens all the time if you parallel park on the road as people never leave room to get your ramp out and you are forced to pull out into the road to get ramp out and children in ! It is maddening at times!

You literally said

"I'm in no way minimising your condition. I have friends who must use disabled loos"

Christ I'm bloody sorry I mentioned the toilets, I should have known better because someone (usually someone who knows lots of people with disabilities, or works with them!) always comes along to argue that non disabled people are fine to use them for whatever reason because they want to. Not because they need to. There's a difference you see...

Maisy if the accessible toilets were locked with a radar key, what would all your friends without disabilities but with upset stomachs do then, break in? Genuine question.

Or if they needed to park outside somewhere and run in (oh the irony!) to the toilet urgently, would they park in a blue badge space outside? I doubt it (especially if there was a financial penalty). Morally it's wrong (and so fucking entitled!) and the majority of people do know it's wrong to use a BB space without a badge supplied for a genuine need.

When I rule the world, all BB spaces will be enforced with financial penalties for misuse and all accessible toilets would be locked and radar keys only provided to people with disabilities (I know this would be difficult to police). So they can be used for the purposes they actually exist for.

ADissappearing you are too kind.
I would have all misusers shot at dawn ! Ha ha

"One lady I support lives in a lovely adapted flat, but can rarely get off her little estate because of a dickhead that parks across the drop kerb by the exit most days. There isn't another on that side of the (very busy) Road"

This. Exactly this.

Thank you so much for posting, CatThief, as I'm sure people really don't get it until they've experienced it. Especially the DWP when they try on the line that "you have a wheelchair so you're not disabled any more".

Journeys out may be technically possible. But in practice they are so fragile - any damn dickhead can screw the whole thing.

It doesn't even have to be a dickhead: something perfectly reasonable like a shop closing for lunch or workers digging up the road completely throws the tightly planned logistics, and you either have to cancel the trip or (worse) are stranded when out.

It's just so arrogant for people who are fortunate enough not to have a need to use accessible facilities in any form, to think they just have an automatic right to be able to use them whenever they need to.

My library provides free large print books - I don't have a VI but I have had a bit of a sore eye for a day so I am going to borrow them - if a person with a VI wants them I will return them.

I'm not deaf but I am going to use this amplified phone provided for deaf people as I have an ear infection and can't hear very well. I'll put it back if anyone needs it, they won't mind.

My DS isn't disabled but they want to use the swing for children with disabilities at the park. All the other swings have a queue. We will only be a minute.

Do you see? It's so arrogant and unthinkingly entitled to think like this.

I would hope any adult who realised they were about to shit themselves/bleed through tampon, puke, pee themselves whatever would have the decency to say to the que I'm desperate I need to question jump, same for parents if a kid needing to pee etc, and a dad should beable to change a kid on their knee, but I guess it's not allways practical if no toilet seat etc, or injury to back or something. But super self concious teen with those health problems, 11 yrold only just started periods, adult with mh problems-valid disability but may not normally need to use disabled toilets, although they might if extreeme paranoia or anxiety etc- may find it impossible to speak up. I guess however diffI cult I find it to keep my kids (asd) waiting for disabled toilets I guess I wouldn't be angry at the above. What there needs to be is more eduration around it though so those people's first impulse isn't to run into disabled toilets. I'm guessing if a person does littleraly have an accident they would need a sink within a cubicle to get cleaned. Not an every day circumstance so unlikely to keep people waiting due to this normally.

I guess it maybe it depends where you are, I live somewhere where there are many listed buildings. Many can't be changed too much and there is littleraly just one toilet for a whole coffee shop/libary/resteraunt etc which is disability accessable and contains baby change. So I guess that's what I was under the impression these were, disability accessable, rather than solely for disabled people. That said I constantly find strangers feel they have the right to challenge me on going in with my 3dc, even if I point out they have autism & I have a number of hidden disabilities that effect toilet use I still find people (older people or visibley disabled people) talk down to me. There shouldn't be a 'hierarchy' with disabilities yet some think there is. Which makes me really sad for my 3dc when they grow up. Can't even think of it tbh because it seems so dark.

I'm in no way minimising your condition. I have friends who must use disabled loos"

Yes. Because they ARE disabled!
Oh my days!

First theres an issue showing compassion to people who might have a short term need.
Then any referenve to people i know who are disabled means i cant have a view on anything without stupid comments like 'im not racist becaude i have black friends'.

if the accessible toilets were locked with a radar key, what would all your friends without disabilities but with upset stomachs do then, break in? Genuine question. my guess is theyd have a leak, much like had happened to many other people in the world who've not got to a bathroom on time. Personally, if rather they were able to avoid that situation.

I think there needs to be more provision for disabled people. But i also think that people can have short term needs.

What ive taken fron this thread (similar to the multitude of trans threads that crop up) is that there are groups of people who feel certain topics are limited to if you have direct experience, that showing compassion to people can get you shouted down (made a mistake on one trand thread for explaining something sympathetically and that was it, shouted down as being antifeminist) and that depsite MN being an area for supposed debate there are some topics that people are very quick to flag as discrimination.

"It doesn't even have to be a dickhead: something perfectly reasonable like a shop closing for lunch or workers digging up the road completely throws the tightly planned logistics, and you either have to cancel the trip or (worse) are stranded when out."

I was stuck in my house for a couple of weeks recently as the gas board were changing pipes or something and had dug up the pavement either side of my drive - and left the holes there. I don't have my own dropped kerb as the council don't deem it needed.

Weird how people are noticing you being discriminatory across multiple areas.

WobblyLegs5
Youve put it better than i have. Ive ended up getting frustrated on this thread.

Baby changes are often in disabled toilets. Where there are other facilities people should use them.
Adults shouldnt just use disabled loos because they are lazy
Times come up when people may have very valid reasons and theres no hierarchy of need.
Id not like to see a teen struggling with anxiety and paranoia struggle, or a parent of children with ASD struggle etc because they havrnt got a radar key.

But maybe we're the odd ones.

Oh heavens, Beyond. And for weeks?

Weird how people are noticing you being discriminatory across multiple areas
How presumptive.

As it happens I was presenting a view in DEFENCE of trans people. And I was shouted down in the name of feminism. I agreed with people on most things but on this point we differed.
If you go on the feminism board, youll see a few threads where people have shared examples of the TA lobby calling any discussion about feminism transphobic (totally uncalled for actually when you read what women are saying).

Ive not experienced the sexist cry personally but have witnessed many other posters on MN get ripped apart.

Interesting that make a comment about what Ive see on MN and you decide that i must be some horrifically intolerant individual
Clearly you feel any view that differs from your own on this topic is discriminatory and thats fine, but please dont compare difference of opinion to discrimination.

We differ on short term need, thats perfectly fine. You wish to present me as some kind of disablist moron then i cant be bothered to entertain the discussion with you anymore.

As mentioned upthread i have 2 wheelchair kids and with regards to dis loos i do not personally have an issue if an able bodied person needed to use it in an emergency. I totally get that and of course not all people who need them are physically disabled.
But it makes me mad when people just cant be bothered and clutter them up through sheer laziness .
Our swimming pool only has 2 disabled changing rooms but they are frequently used by people who have young children as they are bigger . I have given up going after one of my children who cannot maintain their body temp was blue and had to be changed on the floor because we had waited so long for the disabled one with a changing bed big enough for him .
So annoying!

I love how you posted such a reasonable response then used 'moron' at the end.

Thats how i feel you have tried to present me on a number of occasions.
You have compared our difference of opinion to racism, you have accused me of suggesting disabled people dont experience discrimination and suggested without evidence that people find me discriminatory across a range of areas based on a general observation of MN threads.
As a result, im unwilling to discuss it further with you.

Not involving myself in the toilet debacle (non user) but NoofNoof I'd have stood clapping your friend for doing that against the car that had blocked her

Maisy, Beyond. You're clearly not going to agree so why not pack it in and let everyone else discuss the original point of the thread?

I have radar keys for my kids, and for when my invisible disabilities are causing enough problem to need access immediately or the bar at the side to help me up again.

I guess I may have no said what I meant so well, I wasn't agreeing with you, I don't think it's OK that someone with a disability needs the accessable toilet and doesn't have access to it, I just think people in that moment of panic will not think and respond in panic and it would be better if there could be better education around this so that anyone with a temporary medical need like dihorea etc could think that their discomfort at saying that to strangers isn't as bad as thing as someone with a disability related need being stuck waiting. But I don't think that they are automaticly selfish fuckers or whatever-i litteraly ran head first into a friend coming out of a dusabled toilet i was trying to keep the kids waiting for that she had gone into becayse she had been miscarrying for days, i dont think shes evil for not thinking of others needs in that moment-years ago now but still-I just think that there is a general lack of education about the needs of people with disabilitits, especially invisible disabilities, especially mental health problems. Like the example I gave of someone trying to access daily life with 20 odd auditory hallucinations going off constantly when pp focused only on how hard life is with physical disabilities. And that's all the dwp/government etc give a fuck about, anyone with mh problems are well and truly fucked over by the wording changes to pip etc, anyone with addictions well and truly vilified in the media.

As an aside I have found it have been treated with much greater considerations and respect with regards to my disabikitues at the point I have needed a stick, frame or wheelchair. I have no first hand experience of how hard it is to access the world using these because I have only ever had them for a few weeks at a time, with alot of help due to the nature of my children's disabilities, but certainly people give more consideration to visible disabilities in my (somewhat limited) experience. Often I find things much worse when I'm at the point of walking becoming too impossible-the pain is much worse and being spoken too like shit for needing a seat on the bus is demoralising and depersonalising- when I use a visable aid I have help/less pain/consideration and sympathy from strangers. I will say I don't doubt others requiring aids find they are treated like shit for being in a wheelchair or similar, but that's not been my short burst of needing aids.

I also found there was a very difficult middle ground that gets missed often when I used a sturdy buggy instead of a walking frame because I had 2toddlers and pregnant with third. I was disabled, which was worse because of pregnancy, and both my children were disabled, but undiagnosed, but ofcourse all anyone saw was a pregnant mum with a buggy who didn't have the same need as anyone with a disability. I guess the likes of severe spd in and after pregnancy could be another reason some needs a toilet with rails to hold on- which occasionally other toilets do have, but not many. Another need not accounted for, especially as the public perception tends to be that women choose pregnancy so are selfish and it's their own fault.

There are one lot of toilets at a resteraunt near us that have toilets with handrails, hand towels instead of handdryers, so if not busy me & my dc can access this successfully (my bladder and bowels can't allways wait due to my disability) and that leaves the disabled accessable toilet free for anyone in a wheelchair who needs, or needs to clean up due to disability. If more toilets were built like this then that would be fairer. Even better if one stall in row had its own sink. Same for buses- if one side could have fold up seats for anyone with a walking frame or buggy as walking frame or baby in a buggy with breathing tank or anyone with assistance dog, then the other side can allways fit a wheelchair without disabling anyone accessing life, but I doubt most people give a fuck about those of use with disabilities that can't be seen but still have major needs.

Callous, Ive literally just said that im done having that discussion