Grand National

[FairytalesAreBullshit]

Was wondering how many bets are reasonable for Grand National, also if any understood the language, sorry for being a PITA

Some places are offering to pay up for positions 1-5 so I'm guessing if your horse is in the first 5 you get something. Will it be at the stake advertised for winning? Is this what each way is?

What's your favourite for the GN?

Total newbie, my sister got a voucher for inviting friends. So DH is going to give it a go, with 4 of us putting £2.50 on a horse.

Good luck to everyone else

I don't find any animal abuse acceptable which is why I don't eat animals. But nice assumption.

Actually from many racing haters here it is obvious you don't have any knowledge of racing yards and the life of the racehorse. What do you suggest set them all free. Fluffy bunny land!!!!!

There are many options in between fluffy bunny land and the Grand National. I know how race horses are treated on yards. They are supreme athletes and cared for at their best they are well looked after. I also know how the horses are treated when they're not running as fast as their owners would like. I've been around ex racehorses for years, I've picked up the pieces after racing has shattered them. It might be comforting to think I know nothing about racehorses, but that isn't the case.

I don't want fluffy bun land. But I would hope that eventually the thoroughbred finds another job or, like many other horse breeds, is crossed to give a leisure horse.

As for the argument about industry - it didn't stop anyone closing coal mines. You shouldn't excuse cruelty on the grounds that it's fine because it makes money for people.

I wasn't talking to you hhorvath, read upthread. I'm on the same side of the issue as you here...

Money doesn't trump compassion or excuse cruelty.

Unless you are a vegan, stfu about the grand national being cruel.

I am 👍🏻

Unless you are a vegan, stfu about the grand national being cruel

GammaRay - humans need to eat food. Strictly speaking they may not really need to eat animals or their by products but it is the diet we've evolved to eat and adapted to. We can also do a lot to mitigate animal suffering in farming.

We don't need to race horses against each other. We have the option to stop the cruelty by just, you know, not doing it. I'm sure there's something else we can pile money into. Throughout human history we've found different ways to exchange money. We've stopped bear baiting, dog fighting, cock fighting and all those nasty working class sports, that also raised a lot of betting revenue. And yet the sport of kings we leave alone.

There are many types of horses who are thrown by the wayside when they are no longer of use to owner. Yes including that cute 12h pony that no longer suits trixi belle therefore left in a field to rot!!!! Only difference is you don't here about them. Most racehorse owners are responsible and give them a happy retirement, they usually have the money.

If you aren't a vegan you aren't allowed to disapprove of cruelty to animals in the name of fun?

Right oh then.

I'll stfu & I'm just off to watch some bear baiting whilst eating a burger.

Most racehorse owners are responsible and give them a happy retirement, they usually have the money

Racehorses generally retire in their early teens, if not considerably earlier. Thus you'd be looking at around 10 years of care once they've retired. The notion that racehorse owners will then give them a happy retirement home for a decade is sweet, but not really born out. According to the Racehorse Sanctuary over 4000 horses leave the racing industry each year, many of them to very uncertain futures.

Ex racehorses can be brilliant. There are several on the yard where I've got my horse. But they're not for everyone and not that easily managed. I recommend this article on ex racehorses written by a racing fan. He argues that many of them would be better off dead. I think he may have a point.

All horses back safe.

It was a really good race - and I'm £17 in profit

Why I said MOST. There is a proportion of horses from all disciplines that are not given the retirement they should. Ponies in particular in my experience left to fend for themselves when the child has outgrown them.

Why I said MOST

Really? You think of the 4000-5000 horses coming off the tracks each year in the UK alone, most have happy retirements with their lovely, caring, wealthy owners? Did you read the article I linked to? The one by a vet who events, and who supports racing, who nonetheless thinks many ex racehorses would be better off dead?

And yes, many other horses in other disciplines and many leisure horses have less than ideal lives. I don't agree with that either and it certainly doesn't excuse what happens with off the track thoroughbreds.

Yes I do.

Yes I do

So would you care to explain why there are so many charities that take in ex racehorses? And why they can't actually take all of them? There are some that even they can't rehabiitate.

I'm not sure what your definition of "most" is. Whatever it is, my experience of ex racehorses is that they are very often sold to people who aren't that experienced and cannot cope. However, perhaps more worryingly they often go to very experienced professionals and they can't cope either. These are people who hunt and know how to look after fit horses, and they find some of the horses are too badly damaged mentally to be safely handled even by them.

Of course it's very comforting to think that racehorses are beautifully looked after in training and afterwards. It's lovely to think that they live out their days hunting and being looked after by knowledgeable people who can handle fit, hot horses. It's comforting to think that those who object don't really know about horses, or don't know about racehorses and how lovely and wonderful it all is. But I've been the one handling a horse that is still chronically headshy six years after it's come off the tracks and really, all of those comforting stories about it just don't ring true to me.

Unfortunately as I have said before there are many horses who are dumped in retirement once they have outlived their use. What should we do ban all horses. Shame we don't live in a perfect world!!!!! Thankfully there are people out there who are responsible and do the best they can by their animals.

So your defence of racing boils down to:

Other people also do bad things to horses
We don't live in a perfect world
I reckon most people are lovely to racehorses anyway, no matter what the evidence

OK. Personally, I think there is a serious debate to be had about the morality of horse racing in particular and of overproduction of horses in general. This isn't the time or the place though. (Hint, it doesn't involve banning horses, or any other hyperbolic nonsense).

Well you find a time and a place for your debate. Go for it. Good luck.