Moving away with DD

[Cadwallader]

DD has just turned 3. Me and her dad are divorced. We come from the north east but moved south during the recession for a better quality of life, education, work etc.. DD was born down here.

DD spends every weekend with her dad. I struggle as a single mother and have decided to move back to the north east where I have the support of my family. It's a 7 hour journey away.

Her dad is incredibly upset. He has work down here so cannot leave and has requested that if I do go that we have a shared care arrangement, so 2 weeks with him, 2 weeks with me until she starts school. I am not happy about this as I will receive no maintenance and it will disrupt her learning at nursery. I'm not going to agree to it. I have suggested 4 days a fortnight.

AIBU?

I live over 3 hours from my family and if I ever split with OH, I'd move back there in a heartbeat. He is a very hands on dad and it is only because he is so involved in the day to day parenting that we both manage. We have no family nearby to help out with childcare and as she has a disability, child care options are limited. Without him I would have to be closer to my family.

I can't believe so many are suggesting a small child would need to do travelling. It is about what is best for the child, and no court in the land would force a mother to drag her child 7 hours to see their father. He should be doing the travelling.

As far as I'm concerned, if being close to her family makes it easier for her to be a happy parent, then she should go. And if he is so absolutely heartbroken about it, he should find a job closer to where his child and her mother live.

He wants to keep his job and his life down there and thinks the solution is to uproot a toddler every fortnight to travel 500 miles away to spend time with whom whist he is working? And because he loves his job so much, that means his ex has to live close by with his child who he sees once a week? I can't believe so many people here think that's ok. What is he prepared to sacrifice for his child because it seems everyone here thinks it is OP and her daughter who have to make sacrifices, in order for everything to stay the same for him.

The bottom line is, being so far from her family as a single mother is not working out for the OP. She needs their support and she wants to go home. Everyone here seems to be suggesting the OP just needs to suck it up and be miserable, so that her daughter can see her father once a week. There is absolutely no reason her relationship with her father can't be continued and maintained, it is just going to take effort on his part and if he is as devoted a father as he claims to be, he shouldn't find that a problem. He should also be concerned that the child's mother is happy. Only a complete prick would suggest a woman stays where she isn't happy.

OP, I'd tell him what you are doing and take your chances in court if he takes it that far. Your responsibility is to your child. When it comes to her relationship with her father, make it clear you are happy for him to see her whenever he wants. If he chooses to stay far away or not travel regularly to see her then that's not your responsibility.

As someone who was in a very similar position to the OP a few months ago, I find most of the responses here very hard to read. She is depressed and unhappy being a single mother and totally isolated from her family. Some of you are saying that it's not about her, it's about her child and that she should stay where she is because that's the best for her child. So she has to spend the next 15 years or so stuck in a place she feels lonely and depressed with no family support, because that's what's best for her child? Come on! OP, this is going to be hard, but I think you have a valid case for moving and don't feel too disheartened by some of the responses on here.

OP, I think you need to do what is best for your family unit (you and DD) and if that means you need to move closer to your family in order for you to regain some quality of life for yourself then you should do it. Your EX can travel to see his DD and there is no guarantee that he won't ever need to move somewhere else in the country, divorced parents all over the country are hours away from each other and the children still see their NRPs. Really surprised at the majority of posters telling OP that her needs come below her daughter and her EXps. It's really not on.

It's your life, do what you need to do.

I hated being about 60 miles from my dad - and thy was just across two counties .... inthinknUABU I'm afraid - you've all got a life there it's not fair to up heave literally everyone

Her father has a right to be in her life. So he drives 7 hours every weekend to see her where's he meant to stay? I do get it must be very hard being miserable on her own and that her mental health is important but there's so many dads who opt out of parenting when the couple split but this sounds like a dad who wants to be involved (I could be wrong). There's obviously a reason they moved south. Maybe he can't get a job up north as easily. It's a very tough call.

For someone who said it's not fair on the OP to drive 7 hours to see her family of a weekend when her ex has their dd how is it then fair to say her ex or her dd could drive for 7 hours? It works both ways.

I feel for you op as it's an awful situation. Are you getting help for your mh?

No sparkle....she moves, she needs to facilitate the contact

Won't he be working full time to earn maintenance?
Won't op be supported so will be able to do the travelling which she caused?

I wonder if a man posted that he wanted to move 7 hours away back home to his family away from his child because he was miserable and depressed he'd get such sympathy.

OP does your ex have your dd every weekend? Could you maybe use this time to build up a network?

YABU!
I hope you can both work it out to your DD's advantage but it's massively unfair to upheave your child and take her away from her dad!

No RedDahlia but in the cases of preventing primary carers from moving, the authorities are pretty unequivocal. If you want to move within the UK, and the reasons for moving are genuine (as opposed for the purpose of frustating contact), then ultimately you will be able to do so.

I know of a case recently, where the parents had shared care and the mum was allowed to move a similar distance, taking the kids with her, and the original order was revoked so that she ended up with residency.

The OP is likely to be able to make this move if she wants to, it's a question of time, money and weighing up what's best for the DD.

Reading the OP, the dad is from the north east too, so the DD is moving back to all her extended family, and he has somewhere to stay up there, presumably.

Not here to judge either way. But, I have been doing divorce research myself this evening and came across an article you might find interesting OP. Basically, if you relocate your DD away from her father then you are possibly increasing her chances of developing psychological difficulties and economical disadvantages in adulthood.

According to Family Law Attorney Leslie Ellen Shear, "once a child lives more than twenty minutes away from the nonresidential parent, sustaining the relationship between them necessitates fragmenting the child's life and activities." By committing to the idea of avoiding parental relocation, divorced or separated parents can help children enjoy the best possible scenario that could happen after a divorce - frequent and natural contact with both parents combined with minimal disruption to the children's lives after the divorce.

Twenty minutes away appears to be a threshold for a significant change in the relationship between the children and the noncustodial parent. Beyond twenty minutes, the impromptu visits diminish, and the parenting time with the noncustodial parent becomes more formal and scheduled. When parents live more than one hour from one another, another change in the visitation schedule occurs; the viability of day visits disappears and the children have to rearrange social activities and time with their friends in order to comply with the visitation schedule.

Many studies have correlated children of divorce as having an increase chance of several psychological issues. Children of divorce have been shown to have lower grades, increased school dropout rates, an increased chance of experimenting with illegal substances, lower self-esteem, fewer friends, and several other issues. But, these statistics are all correlational - not causal. In other words, the studies do little to show that the divorce itself caused the issues described.

One of the issues with the correlational studies is that some children of divorce do quite well. In each study, there are three significant risk factors that drastically increase the chance of children having negative physiological problems after a divorce:
Conflict (High-Conflict Parenting)
Distance (Parental Relocation)
Parental Alienation

Without resorting to bird's nest custody, committing to high-quality parenting techniques and living close together during the children's childhood is thought to give children the best chance of adjusting to the divorce in ways that do not lead to psychological problems later in life.

As Soviet said, it is very rare for the court to prevent a primary carer moving within the UK, unless there is clear evidence that this would be harmful to the child in some way. OP your reason for moving sounds legitimate and not just something based on a whim. You have family up north, you know the area well, you have roots there.

So it's that simple then

Where will you live? Houses don't just appear
How will you pay for this move? Or more likely, who will pay?

Permanent: interesting quote. Do you have the source? I notice no mention of an abusive relationship; once left it is very difficult to maintain any sort of normal parenting relationship. How do you protect a child against their parent's abuse?

Adding my support in saying you are not being unreasonable. Can't believe so many mumsnetters are giving you hard time. You're the primary parent. If you're depressed and unhappy that's not good for you or, more importantly, not good for your dd. Your ex should understand this and be prepared to inconvenience himself to ensure his dd has a happier mum. Only stay if you think life might improve/ have more opportunities for you in long run. Otherwise if you have a good family go to them. All research says strong social support is most significant factor for good mental health and wellbeing. Without that, what else matters?

child only where I found it. No original sources quoted though.

www.custodyzen.com/divorce-terms/birds-nest-custody.html

Dumbfounded is this meant to relieve her unhappiness?

No.

It was meant to be what it is. An interesting article related to the OP's dilemma. Which may or may not have any merit.

I have fibromyalgia due to my mental health. My parents were not great while I was growing up and admittedly there are lots of drugs in my hometown. My parents are better grandparents than they were parents though. I plan to stay away from my old crowd of friends. I think their support will help with my illness. I'm hoping to get a council house but will live with my parents for now.

Do you think a court would make us do the two week arrangement?

People who were horrible parents always try to redeem themselves as grandparents.

MSqueen

Presumably he would stay in a hotel. Plenty of them about. Or with his family given he is from the area.

Your suggest a man posting the question would be treated with far more compassion. How about her partner posting the story

"My child's mum is struggling and wants to move closer to her family, but I think she should suck it up and be miserable here so that I can see my child once a week. She's just being selfish and needs to think about my relationship with my daughter. It's up to her to make that work. It's too much hassle for me to travel 7 hours to see her at the weekends, so I'm suggesting she leaves the child here for two weeks at a time. I'm sure I can find a childminder for when I'm at the job I can't bear to give up, then for the other two weeks, she can come down here to collect the child and bring her back two weeks later. I also suggested I could have her full time and her mum could come take her for four days a fortnight."

You think that guy would get a sympathetic hearing?

You're poor child, you're being so selfish!!
Sounds dodgy already 'staying away from your old crowd'

Oh, and I say this as someone who lives 12000 miles away from my family in a town with NO friends. So only my partner. I dream of living in my home country. But it won't happen, my child NEEDS his father

Your update convicts me even more that you should explore support options locally and not move home.

No, I don't think a court would make you do the two week arrangement.

Did you read my previous post? Are you ignoring it?

Sounds like you've got it all planned out already