Aibu to think headmistress is living in la la land?

[Maxandrubyrubyandmax]

Get out of a 30 min meeting at work 5missed calls on mobile and my secretary comes rushing over at same time land line calls. Headmistress from ds school. DS has run into post and banged his nose. Can I get there immediately. Apparently DS is fine but we have to pick him up. Explain I will be about 45 min as need to pack up and get train and walk to school. DH about an hour away. Quizzed about couldn't a grandparent pick up
DS (no the nearest is 2 hours away). Didn't we have friends? Yes but it's not 1955 so they all work? Other relatives? No they live miles away and yes they work. Set off to school. Head mistress rings DH goes through same questions. As no one has moved house in last 5min gets same answer. Get to school. DS sat chatting to school secretary happy as you like. Head mistress goes through same questions nope still no one hAs moved or given up job in last 45 min. But there must be someone says the head. Well no actually there isn't. But she wants someone who can be at school in 5 min. Start to get pissed off. No one I tell her. She then shakes her head and says I guess that's how it is these days then. Aibu to be pissed off and felt judged about the fact I have moved away from the family home, got a job and don't just drop off child and sit at home all day? If it had been urgent I would have jumped in a taxi

If a child is in your care and suddenly and unexpectedly becomes ill or injured, it's the job of you, until the parents arrive. Whether you are teacher, babysitter, scout leader or swimming teacher.

This.

Yes the parents should come asap, particularly if it is on the more serious end of illness or injury.

But the responsible adult must provide the necessary care in the interim - as Scout Leaders we have trained in first aid for this purpose (we may be up a mountain so not necessarily easy for parents to get to their DC!), and I have also trained and act as an occupational first aider for work, where the organization has a duty of care to its employees.

It is not ideal to take away from teaching time - but if a DC falls over in yard and breaks a bone in their leg (as happened in our school last week - my DD was telling me the gory details!), then they need to be cared for until either the parent arrives or medical help arrives or the child is brought by school staff to seek medical help.

Some schools have some more resources than others to juggle in such instances - using resource time for a child to do a "whole class" aspect of the DCs programme, splitting a class between other teachers, using support staff to care for the ill child, principal stepping in somewhere and ignoring other paperwork/admin issues until later....just as a few ideas immediately springing to mind. You don't expect such a situation to arise on a daily basis, but you should expect to have bumps, knocks, cuts, sore tummies, sore heads, D&V, etc on an almost daily basis and have some sort of procedures worked out for dealing with the run of the mill events, and a second procedure to kick in when something more major happens.

Surely all schools have someone qualified in First aid? It is a legal requirement for all other places of work, and every school I have known has had at least a couple. Often this is the Receptionist, it is a standard part of a School secretary's job description.

We are expected to be nurses, counsellors, social workers etc etc.

No, you aren't. Please don't devalue these professions. It's fucking annoying when people claim that being asked to administer basic first aid makes them a nurse, to listen to a sad child makes them a counsellor, to take down a disclosure and notify the LA makes them a social worker, etc. If I explain to someone how to do something it doesn't make me a teacher.

In any case, schools have always had to do more than just teach, and anyone who says otherwise is deluded.

YANBU, my DD doesn't start school until September but from MN and friends it sounds like school's are a PITA when it comes to parents especially working parents! I thought her nursery was bad enough when they ask for parents to join them on a village scavenger hunt on a Wednesday afternoon (erm I work!) and the like.

For the school my DD is going to I've had to sign a load of forms for staff being allowed to give medical help at a first aid level, and also a special Asthma form for giving her her inhaler.

And I know different DCs can have different issues underlying, and also different pain/illness thresholds too, and there are some trying to skive off while others are genuinely ill/injured.

MOST parents try to be pragmatic and not send ill DCs to school. Or at least, if they think a DC is a little ill but well enough for school, make arrangements to be available to collect or for someone else to be able to collect DC if they are too ill to stay at school.

MOST parents would want to get to their DCs as fast as possible if there was an injury. But it may take time.

And not all parents have access to others who would be suitable for taking care of their DC in their own absence - not knowing neighbours, not having family nearby (or family not being suitable or having capacity - DGM may be caring for DGGM herself so not able to just "run up to school and grab DC who has bumped their head but seems generally OK"), being new to an area, knowing the DCs have underlying issues that school know about but neighbours don't (and have no need to know in many cases).

In that latter case, the school may know the DC well enough and have enough of their history to know that "Mary has well controlled diabetes but sometimes it spikes and she needs sugar and water and a quiet rest but if it happened at morning break on a sunny day, should be able to go back to class after 30-45 minutes"; or that "James has a very high pain threshold so if he says his arm is sore, we'd better check it carefully" whereas "Michael tends to want to not do science so often gets a headache that day", or "Carol has ASD and had a difficult morning in class, so while she's saying she has a sore tummy, she probably needs more quiet time for a while to allow her to cope and not have a meltdown in class later".....those sorts of things. A neighbor coming in may know nothing or very little about those, or how to manage any of those specific situations - even if they know the DC reasonably well as a neighbor - whereas there would be an expectation that school has an ongoing awareness and plan for managing specific situations like those in general.

Watery: I always worked near to my DCs' schools. I could have earned more elsewhere but they were my priority.

Did you mean that to sound quite so judgemental about the hard-nosed career bitches who are farming out their parenting to the poor teachers?

Or, to rephrase from mine and DH's perspective, 'people whose jobs barely exist outside of major cities, particularly London, where they can't afford to live so long commutes are a basic fact of life'?

We took a decision, yes, but I don't think that choosing an entry level job which barely keeps us so that when, once in three years, we're asked to come to school and can be there in 15 minutes is proportional or sensible. Neither does it indicate that I care less about my children than you about yours, which frankly is what your post seems to be suggesting.

The school doesn't have the spare staff to see to injuries or sick children - they should be in their classrooms teaching. That's why parents are asked for emergency numbers of someone who can get there quickly. Sometime the ambulance staff won't take a child unless there is someone with them - can't be a teacher, obviously, so who do you suggest?

A school that doesn't have contingencies in place to deal with this sort of issue is run by idiots. It's just a fact that no parent can guarantee to be available to turn up at the school within 5 minutes of being called - even a SAHM living next door to the school may be out for a couple of hours.

One of the teachers on this thread bemoaning that parents cant get there in time has posted bemoaning about workless families in the past.

No, you aren't. Please don't devalue these professions.

Er, I wasn't. But some parents expect us to be that which we aren't qualified to be. That's the point I was making, FFS.

Watery, life is not as simple as you are making out.

My kids are all near adults now, so this isn't the issue it once was, but we live in a village with one primary school and very few employment opportunities. No relatives nearby.

Many parents both have to work and in order to find work they will often be at least half an hour away. Many (including us) do not have relatives anywhere near and most friends both have their own children and also have to work.

Why do you find this so hard to understand? Seriously!

Nobody is saying that they would not make every effort to get there and collect their children as soon as they reasonably could if the situation demands it. They are just saying that it does usually take longer than 5 minutes and, much as we might all wish otherwise, there is no magic wand. Teleportation, the Tardis etc. remain the stuff of science fiction for now and in my experience sensible schools and headteachers do appreciate this.

My youngest is 14 and at secondary school 15 minutes drive away in the next town. I work every morning, some months of the year from home.

It would certainly be more than 5 minutes before I could collect her if I ever did get a call. Until I did get there school staff would have to look after her. What is the alternative? She would be in the sick bay, and it wouldn't be for too long. In 8 years of having my two youngest DDs go through that school it has only happened once that one of them needed to be collected halfway through the day.

Okay if I am unemployed, I will make sure to tell my advisor that I can not take a job more than 15 minutes travel away from DCs school. I wonder how well that would go down.

I do understand how hard it is for parents but disagree that it should be teaching staff left to deal with it. I've said twice now - there should be a full time nurse in every school, but not paid for from the education budget.

Part of the issue is thw whole joined up thinking situation. DWP expects parents to accept jobs up to 90 minutes away from home or they get sanctioned. Admission policies might mean that the child is placed in a school 40 minutes in the other direction. There may well be transport provided by the LA due to distance of nearest available school. With UC rules that means both parents may need to accept these distant jobs but may well not have spare money to get home faster than normal.

I can't actually think of many fixed jobs where being able to drop everything and leave is actually easy...

Barristers might well be in court (no phone) at the wrong end of the country
Solicitors - in criminal law might be at a jail/police station.
Police
Armed services
Vets
Drs
Nurses (vet or human)
Farmers
Reps/Sales (generally travelling more often than not.
Call centre (personal phones banned)
Outdoor instructor could be 3+ hours from vehicle at the wrong time of day
Retail doesn't strike me as somewhere employees are allowed phones
Heavy engineering (safety)
Construction (safety)

People can no longer live where they work - and are less likely to know their neighbours /live near family. School systems need to adjust to the new way of things.

And 95% of schools have nobody beyond a first aider to make the decision.

Exactly, I am one of the first aiders at my school, do parents have any idea how difficult it is to know which of the 30 small children complaining of tummy ache is actually ill and which one is just hungry/needs a poo when all you can get is 'miss, my tummy really, really hurts' while they clutch it dramatically? No one ever just has a bit of tummy ache either, it always really, really hurts. Same with the headaches, bumps etc and if you call too soon parents think you are stupid and if you don't call you don't care enough, then occasionally you get the odd child who doesn't make a fuss and you are so used to children making a fuss that you miss something.

I don't mind holding a bucket while your child pukes and agree that this HT was being ridiculous, after all i can't be there in 5 minutes when my DC's schools call either, but I do expect parents to get to school as soon as they can and with a little less attitude than there has been on this thread, I don't send children home for the fun of it!

Not sure why the mother was even called in this case! Sounds like a minor injury - if his nose wasn't broken then not much she can do. possibly because the child ran face first into a post so there was a risk of head injury, or because it was hurting and he needed painkillers, or he may have complained of a headache/being dizzy so needed keeping an eye on, it's hard to say without knowing all the facts, lots of kids seem to perk up miraculously once they know they are being sent home.

I feel sorry for kids these days who have no one who can get there. I love being there for my ds

Oh, give over. Bully for you that you can be at home all day, some people can't!
Seriously, mums can''t win, can they?!If you're a SAHM, people say or assume that you must sit on your arse all day, and when are you going to "get a little job now they're at school then?"
Get a job and it's "aw poor little things, not having mummy at home."
What the fk else are you supposed to do?! Honestly, it's ridiculous, and people seriously need to shut the fuck up and do what's best for them without constantly judging others.
Oh, and I'm a SAHM by the way. I'm "sat at home by the phone all day" but even if you rang me I don't drive so I'll come straight away but it's a 20 minute walk or so.
If I was still working it'd be half an hour until I got to you. What do they expect you to do?!

Brasty I can assure you - you would be sanctioned.
But hey that's OK. No food for little brasty's.
Maybe school will let you all stay for dinner.

Watery: I do understand how hard it is for parents but disagree that it should be teaching staff left to deal with it. I've said twice now - there should be a full time nurse in every school, but not paid for from the education budget.

Then in principle we agree. The problem is not with parents working miles/hours from school. The problem is schools having insufficient budgets to provide a basic level of medical provision, e.g. a nurse (and a counselor, if I had my way).

even a SAHM living next door to the school may be out for a couple of hours.

My DC current school can't grasp this - I'm supposed to be waiting constantly by the phone and teleport.

I got told off because I failed to pick up the phone but I hadn't got in from walking the kids to school. We aren't the furthest away parents.

Had similar situation to OP minor knock to one child -they insisted I bring a perfectly happy child home so she could rest - but she had 30 min walk home - 40 minutes rest then back out with me back to school to pick other child up and then walk home again - so an hours and half walk instead of sitting in a class room. Child too young to leave - but they were surprised there was no one to watch them while I picked other child up - I know because they told me that as if I'd done something wrong.

I'm now just musing on how impoverished the UK would be if people only ever took jobs within 15 mins of home. The ability to commute is a significant factor in economic growth.

YY brasty and random And any teacher who happened to vote a certain way voted for these policies.

random A friend of mine wasnt even allowed a bottle of water on the shop floor when she had to take pills regularly. So as for a phone............forget it.

No we are not expected to be social workers, nurses etc but we are responsible for the whole needs of the child when they are in our care. Of course it's tiring on top of everything else but the way I see it, if a child isn't well, fed and content, they won't be ready to learn. If a child comes to school upset because mum and dad were quarrelling before she went to school, should I disregard that because I'm not a social worker or counsellor?

Watery if you don't think you have any responsibility for the wellbeing of the children you teach, I suggest you're in the wrong job.

I was frequently in the position last year where I was the only contact for my DCs as DH was hopping abroad for work. DGM1 is in another country. DGM2 lives 200+ miles away and works full time. DGGM hasn't been able to drive the 50+ miles to my town in over a decade. I have one neighbour... works FT. I have a few local friends... working FT. Meanwhile I was working FT which meant that I knew no other parents at the school as I'd never met them. There was no one else. Fortunately my DCs are pretty tough, healthy creatures so I didn't get a call as it would have meant getting through to the school office, delivering a message to the far side of school, organising cover, and setting cover before I could even set foot in the car park.

I was hit by strike action in a local dispute. DH took the brunt of it on his local days, and fortunately on the days that I had to plug the gap, it fell on time that my A level students were on study leave and I managed to bring DS back for my afternoon lessons which was the only available compromise on my own child's needs, and the needs of my 50 GCSE students.

It is the irony that the head teacher's own staff may well have this predicament themselves that is so breathtaking.

If you can't get to school in under an hour then you need to find and then nominate someone who can. At primary schools there are first aiders but they'll also be teachers or TAs. And the school receptionist can look after your bleeding and initially, no doubt, miserable kiddie but she shouldn't have to do it.

I'm SAHP and have occasionally had to pick up other people's sick kids. Just one time I had an actual puking child, bowl in hand, led out to me by mum because she'd a meeting to get to that she couldn't cancel. If I'm home I will always help out.

Whoever picks your DC up from school needs to make some new friends! It's a bit cheeky but it isn't fair either on school or your DC not to have someone local to call.