Why you do or don't believe in God?

[summerbloom]

Interested to hear people's views on why they do believe in God or on why you don't believe in God.....

Far more knowledgeable physicists/chemists could probably answer your question far better than I can dawnview. I only have the barest of knowledge about the physical laws of the universe. But I am far more convinced by what I've read in science than I am by arguments for the existence of god. I simply not believe that there is an intelligent conscious creator that sparked all life. And anyway that conception was dreamed up by a human understanding of what consciousness is. God created in man's image.
By the way, what is your creation belief?

'I find it intriguing, when someone who is obviously very intelligent, educated and with lots of life experience believes in God. It is something that keeps me humble, stops me from declaring I'm an out and out Atheist and forces me to categorise myself as agnostic.'

Those people may also make other poor decisions - emotional intelligence is not dependent on IQ. Lots of smart people are afraid of dying too and make themselves a god to help with the fear. Doesn't mean there is one.

mortalenemy
I don't understand much science but I still don't believe in god.

dawn

What are you views on evolution?

THe Universe has no need of humans

if due to nut jobs, humans are wiped off the face of this planet, it will carry on contendedly without us

if humans are irrelevant to the universe
then any supernatural being is even more so

Anyway, yet more reasons for why God doesn't exist.

Remember when religion said that the sun rising and setting was because of God? Or that he was responsible for thunder and lightning, and people looking like their parents?

Of course, now we can explain all of these things with science.

You know what else we can explain with science? How religions start, how Gods are created and why.

Also, if God does exist, why does every single religion see him differently, attribute different things to him and so on? Ah, because they're stories, and they're all talking about different gods that they created. Just like Egyptian and Greek gods - they were all created in the minds of various people.

Why is the God described in the Bible more valid than the one described in the Quran? Why is the Christian God more valid than Thor, or Zeus?

emotional intelligence is not dependent on IQ

I'm not talking about IQ though, I'm talking about someone who has dedicated their career to the study of philosophy, who has done extensive research and reading into hundreds of different belief systems and theories of knowledge, who not some outsider but part of a respected and active international academic community, but still believes in God.

Contrary to Jaago's suggestion, I'm not saying therefore there must be a God, just that it makes me think twice.

As I said earlier in the thread, I don't understand how something could have come from nothing, ie the Big Bang, but I know there are scientists who do understand it or at least can conceptualise it better than I can, so it works both ways.

greenworm because those clever, educated people have some flaw in their nature that drives them to make a god still doesn't mean there is one. You can decide for yourself that there isn't one. If those people also do something bad, would you also think 'oh well that's ok they have done extensive research and are a member of some academic community so that's alright'? That is how organised religion works - mostly men convince everyone that they are clever, educated and know best. Don't buy in to it. If something seems ridiculous and unlikely and the people who are telling you about it are dull, scared, brainwashed people who speak in cliches and want you to join their gang... think hard.

No sorry, odds like that are so high as to be deemed impossibe, yes the big bang can be proved, it's what caused the big bang and the order of the universe that's not understood. Anyway we're going round in circles, it's got tiresome. But carry on believing the impossible rather than the logical. Can't be bothered any more. Too many closed minds on here. Makes me laugh though how so many laugh and sneer at people who believe in God and yet you're prepared to believe the impossibility of a random universe. I think it's us that should be laughing. Night all.

Could this person's belief be connected with superstition Greenwich? My friend who suffers terribly with OCD incorporates religious rituals into her daily routine. For her, the perceived consequences attached to not following these rituals are so bad that she is unable to speak them for fear of jinxing herself.

Another friend who is struggling to conceive has just started wearing a headscarf. I suspect she has made a pact with Allah, a baby in return for observance. Again, it's not something she wants to discuss beyond that she has "chosen to explore her faith".

flaw in their nature

My philosophy professor at an (excellent) university was one of the most intelligent, well-read, eccentric, considerate people I have ever encountered, and he was a Christian. He had an extremely coherent and well thought out Christian philosophy. I always think of him when I feel scathing about religion, and it keeps me in check.

I knew a philosophy professor like that too. Either we know the same person or there's more than one who fits the bill.

and the people who are telling you about it are dull, scared, brainwashed people who speak in cliches and want you to join their gang... think hard.

That's not at all what I'm describing. This professor never tried to recruit anyone to his "gang" and was certainly not dull or brainwashed, nor did he speak in clichés.

Ah! I didn't realise we were talking about one special prof. Well that's ok then.

No sorry, odds like that are so high as to be deemed impossibe

Says who? Says you. Where did you come up with this theory dawn? It is you who believes in the impossible and the implausible. What exactly is your theory of creation then?

But carry on believing the impossible rather than the logical.

Haha, I'm pissing myself that believing in a man in the sky is apparently the 'logical choice'.

Yes, we can't prove what caused the Big Bang definitively but we can point to a sequence of events that - in all likelihood, based on years and years of research, evidence of it happening in other situations, computer simulations, circumstantial evidence etc - caused the Big Bang to happen.

What do you think particle accelerators are? These are machines that can recreate the sequence of events that happened seconds after the Big Bang by recreating the particles and gases and elements that are abundant in our galaxy. From these tests, we can then work out what put those elements there in the first place.

Officially, science can't explain the placebo effect. We know it happens, because we can experience it, but everything that we know about it is all based on theories and simulations. We can't definitively prove it yet, but we will one day.

Years ago, science couldn't prove how people got lung cancer or why some people were more prone to cancers than others. Years later, science can prove (thanks to long term study) that cigarettes can cause cancer, and that some people carry genes that make them more prone to cancer.

Hell, until about 60 years ago, DNA was a mystery to us. We could only theorise about it.

That doesn't mean it can all be explained by religion, it just means we can only assume things based on other things we know and through trying to recreate situations until science gets to a level that can prove the theory.

how rational is it to accept odds of 1 in 10 +40.000 zeros after it that we are here as a result of a random explosion

That probably wouldn't be rational if it were true, but it's just a made up number with no scientific basis.

Another:

We know from Geological evidence (ie Science) that around 3.8 to 2.4Bn years ago, all the ice on Earth melted and left us with liquid water. However, the Sun was a lot fainter than it is now (again, we know this because the Sun is getting more powerful and has been for centuries) so what melted the ice? We can't explain that YET. Everything about what happened is just a THEORY for now.

Doesn't mean a man in the sky made it happen, does it? Dinosaurs were just a theory until we found evidence of them. People didn't believe Pharaohs had actually existed until we found their remains.

Stone Henge was built and produced by a culture that left no records. We have no idea how they built it or why, just that we know it's incredibly old and right now we can't work out how they were able to move such large stones without the invention of the wheel. We will know one day though, and I have faith in that.

i do if you believe in free will which most people do then you have to because if you believe there is no god you believe were just a product of genitice and enviroment then a machine could predict what you are going to say and do. the same arguments made by sam harris i would say its a supernatural force (god) gives us free will and if you believe in free will from a secular point its not compelling

Not a scientist but as a historian with a fair knowledge of the 'Dark Ages'. When you know how the predominant religion came here - basically trade deals and at the end of a sword... totally can't believe in it. Ditto all religions. The fact they need to evangelise/spread/get bums on seats tells you the basic truth is...£s.

Also I had an extremely tough childhood, which meant I would have been an idiot if I believed n a magical person in the sky - and what sort of person would he be, to have done that to me, anyway? The two single most 'evil' people I have known in my life - both churchgoing christians, utterly convinced of their own virtue whilst inflicting incredible trauma on others. You have to believe the evidence of your own eyes. That said, some of the loveliest people I have ever known have been of various religions. But usually, if you know them well, you can ascribe their belief system to however they were brought up and enculturated.

My mum was very religious (her god smote her! She died young). My dad was an agnostic. So I had both POVs, growing up.

Yes, we do have a few religious philosophers, but they are statistical outliers. I meet academic philosophers on a daily basis, and atheism is a safe bet unless otherwise stated. Beyond that, I wouldn't support a belief by appealing to what person x thinks. That only tells me you're not thinking very hard about this yourself.

Dawn: You're behind the times. We've got workable, testable theories about the origin of the Universe. Not decisive, but we're certainly not as in the dark as you claim. But even if we hadn't a clue, plugging god in the gap of our understanding is a whacking great big fallacy.

What evidence is there of X?

The evidence is that I've experienced X.

Oh really? What was the experience?

It just was.

What was?

My experience.

So what was it?

You wouldn't know till you had experienced it.

Right.,.. so that's the evidence then?

That's right. Sorry I can't be of more help.

--

These are the sorts of people that believe in god.

*It's easier to accept a creator than accept the odds of us being here from the results of a fluke.^

Oh, I absolutely get that it's more comfortable to think that humans are Special, and created with a view to somehow putting us at the centre of things, rather than the idea that we are a waypoint along a much longer story, here because of thousands upon thousands of chances and selections, and that we will cease to exist for the same reasons and something else take our place.

I think it takes more faith for an atheist to accept a random universe than a created universe.

Why? The evidence of science and history
points to chance and even if it didn't it isn't logical to say the automatic or most likely cause of 'things I don't know or understand' is 'a god' rather than 'other stuff I don't know or understand'.

Logic is going for the answer that is the most likely based on the evidence. Historical evidence points to gods being a human creation to provide an explanation for the unknown, and monotheism in particular a relatively recent invention, and that religion and the creation of particular gods and prophets by people has been very influenced by commerce and control.

Scientific evidence supports the theories that say chance. The evidence base might change and improve and our understanding might improve. Even if we've got it totally wrong now, the only other alternative isn't 'a god'.

And logic says that it would be immensely strange for a creator god to plan two or more species of humanoids, knowing that only one could survive.

No faith required. There are things I don't know, and that's fine. There are things that may never be understood, and that's also fine. I just don't buy gods as the catch-all answer to stuff we don't know, above all other possible explanations. I get that not knowing is uncomfortable for many people.

I do feel sad that people of faith never get to feel that sense of wonder and joy in the amazingness of a universe and natural world that only exists as we currently know it because of millions and millions of fine-tunings, and chances, and the sheer irrelevance and minuteness of our species against that backdrop.

I don't and am surprised people still do in this day and age. I don't respect 'believers' and deep down think they are v emotionally immature for still having an invisible friend.

But what created the universe/Big 💥 in the first place?