Why you do or don't believe in God?

[summerbloom]

Interested to hear people's views on why they do believe in God or on why you don't believe in God.....

I don't. I never have; nobody in my family is a believer so I probably didn't hear anything about religion until I was five or so at school. I don't remember believing in Santa or the Tooth Fairy either, and the existence of those makes more sense to me than an invisible, omnipotent cloud man who made everything in a week. Having said that, I respect anyone's right to believe anything they like, as long as they don't try to convert me.

As I've said already on this thread, it's the circularity of most of the pro-faith arguments that frustrates me. Just because something is intricate doesn't mean it was designed to a pattern. Those numbers in that chances of chance evolution article were daft too. How can you possibly calculate the chances of insulin developing? Chances as compared to what? Chances in another universe? Chances without oxygen? If everything is random it only needs one extraordinarily unlikely thing to happen once in a chain of events.

But again, the thing that baffles me most is the acceptance of the myths of any one faith.

I don't. Too many bad things happen to good people.

I don't believe in a god. As others have said, there's no evidence for one; indeed as we learn more about how the universe works, the less need there is for a creator to explain it all.
But that's just it, scientists still can't explain how we came to be here. Every time they think they might have the answer they come up against the same old brick wall. They cannot explain the "big bang" and they also cannot explain the impossible odds of the sun and moon in perfect alignment to our planet. Yes they are learning more and more every day but they are still as baffled by this as they were hundreds of years ago.

I don't believe in a god. As others have said, there's no evidence for one; indeed as we learn more about how the universe works, the less need there is for a creator to explain it all.
But that's just it, scientists still can't explain how we came to be here. Every time they think they might have the answer they come up against the same old brick wall. They cannot explain the "big bang" and they also cannot explain the impossible odds of the sun and moon in perfect alignment to our planet. Yes they are learning more and more every day but they are still as baffled by this as they were hundreds of years ago.

But why do the laws of physics have to have been designed?
I struggle to even understand how the words "laws of physics" and "designed" can be stuffed together in the same concept.

The laws of physics are emergent laws - they just are. They are properties of matter, not rules of behaviour imposed on matter. IYSWIM?

I think the very idea of god is bonkers and, as much as I'm ashamed to admit this, my opinion of people changes when I hear that they believe in god
That's awful, i as a believer would never feel less of a person for not believing. Pity maybe, or even puzzlement but they're as entitled to their views as much as mine. I never get into discussions with them because i've found that atheists can get a bit angry at us believers.

Can you say more about how disease is man-made, Lady?
I'm thinking about cigarettes causing lung cancer, unhealthy lifestyles contributing to cancer & heart disease, pollution, high quantities of sugar etc. etc.
Ebola can spread through sharing water sources - you get one sick person using a village well and boom..... Likewise it spreads from infected animals to people because man destroys their habitats to make money and the animals move into man's territory instead.
Yes bacteria & viruses exist naturally - they're living too. It's all part of natural selection, survival of the fittest and best. We're providing them with more opportunities to affect us.
(I'm not good at explaining things btw, so if I'm not making a convincing argument it's not that my arguments are weak as such (though they may be), more that my abilities to communicate them are fairly dire!)

Dawn, you need to read more.

Scientific understanding progresses all the time. In the last month, NASA has shown us new evidence of dozens of exoplanets that show that the 'impossible' odds of finding somewhere capable of creating life are far smaller than people (science) thought even a decade ago.

Do science yet have a perfect understanding of the origin of the universe? No. Does that mean that a supernatural explanation gives us a better alternative? No. There's much much worse evidence for a god than for our imperfect scientific understanding.

dawnviews
But that's just it, scientists still can't explain how we came to be here. Every time they think they might have the answer they come up against the same old brick wall. They cannot explain the "big bang" and they also cannot explain the impossible odds of the sun and moon in perfect alignment to our planet. Yes they are learning more and more every day but they are still as baffled by this as they were hundreds of years ago.
Well as I said, but you selectively edited out: "As for the "science can't explain everything" argument; a lack of knowledge isn't evidence of a god. It's just evidence that religions have always relied on people's ignorance to 'prove' their belief"
And - no, "they are still as baffled by this as they were hundreds of years ago", scientists know vastly more about it than they did 20 years ago, just because you don't know everything that they do, doesn't mean they don't, and, the gaps of our knowledge are not there for god to be shoehorned in.

as for people and children dying or naturally deformed in some way, I can't help but think that is due to generational disease, the environment which we have and continue to ruin, the spreading of disease etc..

There is all too much evidence that this has been happening for centuries and therefore it can't purely be down to disease or the damage done to the environment. But, even if it is, I don't see how this can be such a perfectly designed world if it allows this sort of thing to happen.

I don't.

I approach religion like the rest of my life. I want evidence for everything. There is no evidence for religion. Belief/faith just don't cut it for me I'm afraid.

Everyone here has a default atheist position you dont believe in the gods that came before your god so that makes you about 99% atheist right? I just happen to believe in 1 less god than you do.

When a baby is born do you think that it comes out with a belief in god or is it something they are taught to do by those that they trust and love, they believe us when we tell them about the tooth fairy and santa, god is nothing more than a personification of our lack of understanding in physics, a comfort when we lose someone we love because we cant imagine a life withoutout them so we must get to see them again.

Do any of you, that believe in god, think that you would still believe in the same god if you were born in a different part of the world?

The people of faith I know are kinder to those around them and more interested in the world beyond themselves than those who don't believe.

Highly anecdotal, Picklemepopcorn, as of course is my own experience of some supposedly godly types who have been really most unpleasant, and some people without faith who have a massive interest in the world beyond themselves and regularly carry out unsung acts of the greatest kindness.

As a health professional who doesn't believe I do have an annoyance with the thanking God when a life has been saved. No credit to the Doctors and nurses and other health professionals then, that actually did the work.

I like the community that religion brings, I do wish there was something like that outside of church.

A lot of people are using the argument of evil, cruelty and disease etc.... the answer is likely found in the word 'evil'. Evil people, evil forces etc..... a question that often comes to my mind is why are people quick to turn to blame God in disaster and despair and not to humanity?

Because it is claimed that god is omnipotent and therefore he could put a stop to evil, cruelty and diseases - if of course he existed.

They cannot explain the "big bang" and they also cannot explain the impossible odds of the sun and moon in perfect alignment to our planet. Yes they are learning more and more every day but they are still as baffled by this as they were hundreds of years ago.

Uh, no, no they aren't.

a question that often comes to my mind is why are people quick to turn to blame God in disaster and despair and not to humanity?

For those that missed it earlier

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

all touched out yes they really are.
The Laws of Chemistry
Life requires a specific chemistry. Our bodies are powered by chemical reactions and depend on the laws of chemistry operating in a uniform fashion. Even the information that makes up any living being is stored on a long molecule called DNA. Life as we know it would not be possible if the laws of chemistry were different. God created the laws of chemistry in just the right way so that life would be possible.

With regards to terrible suffering, I would ask why do we get so upset about it if at the end of the day the universe is meaningless and we are just a product of our DNA? For me that points to us believing there is a innate sense of human worth and where does that belief in human worth and value come from? I would say to a creator God.

I don't understand why we can only get upset about terrible suffering if the universe has meaning, or indeed that the universe can only carry meaning if we believe in god? Surely basic morality and empathy mean that we are entitled to be unhappy about, say, children dying of starvation whether the universe has meaning or not? You can't seriously believe that it would be logical to shrug our shoulders at the sight of a person in agony and say "Meh, there's no god, the universe is meaningless, so who cares?

Picklemepopcorn, some of the nastiest people I have met have had a faith.

I believe in God, my faith gives me a warm comfort and is the centre of my entire existence, I believe in Him wholeheartedly...

It amazes me that people can blame God for famines etc... Don't you see that God is perfect in that He has given us all that we will ever need to sustain ourselves on this planet but we as Humans are imperfect and cause the world issues...

Wars are caused by Humans, famine is caused by us, we have enough food to feed everyone on this Earth but greed takes over that. God has given us the capability of making decisions and the conscience to live our lives how we want, what we do with that and how we take it forward is down to us. I see beauty in my religion and things that I follow in my religion were written for us thousands of years ago but is so relevant even now, many scientists are discovering this now more than ever...

The World and its inhabitants and contents are too perfectly formed for there not to be a creator...

People who are saying that disease and disasters are man's fault and not god's, how can that possibly make any sense if you believe in a god who is omnipotent?!

I get the (convenient) argument that god created humans with free will, so they are able to choose and make mistakes, but given that god supposedly created everything...

a) Why would he have created horrible diseases at all (however they may be spread by humans)?

b) Why would he have created a world with natural disasters (not by any means all of which are caused by humans)?

c) Why would he let innocent children die of diseases or birth defects which are certainly nothing to do with their 'free will'?

d) Why, if he is an omnipotent and loving god, does he not step in and sort out these dreadful things - even the ones which have been humans' fault?

And finally, if god created the universe and man and all their flaws, then how can any of these things possibly not be his fault?

No doubt it's because god moves in mysterious ways...

Firstly, this earth-based life is only one form of 'life'. Presumably if you accept the infinite possibilities of evolution different life could evolve elsewhere with different ways of being alive. And again, you are assuming the circular anthropomorphic view of 'This is what God wanted it to be like, therefore it is like this.'

But why did God make so many mistakes then? Why are there congenital malformations and genetic diseases? Why is there drought? Why didn't he make people who could live in desert areas without water? Why didn't he make people who didn't get malaria? Why do people get frostbite?

I'm always puzzled by the notion of heaven. Assuming that most people who aren't actively evil get to heaven, that still means that it would be stuffed with people who, for varying reasons, don't like each other. There are a number of people around to whom I don't actually wish ill but who I have absolutely no desire to spend eternity with. So how would it be heaven for me? Even if there were some way I could avoid having anything to do with them, what happens if they actually want to associate with me - does their experience of heaven get to be spoilt by being deprived of that opportunity?