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No custody for DV as woman not "vulnerable"

233 replies

PandaPolar · 27/03/2017 11:13

"A Pakistani cricketer who beat his wife with his own bat and forced her to drink bleach while urging her to kill herself is set to join a top British club after being spared jail."

"But Bashir was spared jail at Manchester Crown Court, where the judge decided that he did not pass the custody threshold because his wife was not a vulnerable person."

What the actual fuck?

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 09/04/2017 07:46

Well forced to drink bleach and swallow tablets may not leave many marks, except death of course, had her husband succeeded, but I don't think those incidents could possibly be described as sounding worse than they actually are

Agreed but her husband does not appear to have been trying to kill her. In any event, the difference between ABH and GBH is the actual injury caused, not the intent.

They get to enjoy life just as before, they can hide their criminal acts if they want to, simultaneously with carrying out the punishment itself

I fully understand what you are saying and, to some extent, agree. However, the conviction will appear on DBS checks for the rest of their life so they cannot always hide their conviction.

prh47bridge · 09/04/2017 08:50

Just to cover off the reasoning, however, the main reason the courts use suspended sentences for first offenders is that there is clear evidence that they are less likely to re-offend after a suspended sentence than if they are sent to jail. A suspended sentence is usually accompanied (as in this case) by a requirement to undertake treatment and/or a financial penalty so, even if they don't actually go to prison, the offender does receive some punishment.

Italiangreyhound · 10/04/2017 02:33

prh but you said earlier he had been telling her to commit suicide and then you said it did look like he was trying to kill her!

Did he intend to kill her, I don't know. Did he intend not to kill her, no, he was not trying to save her life. He was doing something on purpose so fucking reckless that it could have killed her.

All the time the law seems keen to minimise violence and threat. only left with bruises.

Do you think that woman will feel able to have normal healthy relationships any time soon?

I'm not just talking about sexual relationships. I mean to trust a man. I can't be sure but I Imagine after what she went through (I'm guessing there was lots more before that will never be known) she may well think twice about getting a taxi with a man let alone going on a date with one.

And if I were set upon by a male colleague how long before I felt safe to return to work?

The law protects the strong by analysing, excusing and minimizing the violence the victim has experienced. Preferring naval gazing about what the perpetrator of violence (almost always male) might actually have intended when he forced bleach into the mouth of his wife, rather than considering the long term affects of that violence.

The law is set up and run by men and benefits them IMHO. This case shows this and it is a crying shame.

Italiangreyhound · 10/04/2017 02:44

"However, the conviction will appear on DBS checks for the rest of their life so they cannot always hide their conviction"

Do jobs always require a DBS? I doubt it if you are not working with children or vunerabke adults. So he won't be able to volunteer with scouts!

But he will be able to pick up, ensnare and abuse other women, if he chooses, presumably.

A financial penalty? For a violent crime. Some treatment? What was he told to do?

'Punishment' is being used very lightly here if he has to see a shrink to sort out his own issues.

If there is a fine, who gets the money? The wife? Maybe she would rather he be locked up than be compensated! If the state, what does that make the fine?

I do wonder if we can say categorically across all types of crime people sent to prison are more likely to re-offend?

Beating your wife isn't like stealing. I can see losing your job would make you more likely to steal when you got out of jail.

I would love to know if there were some stats on this. But my fear is so few wife-beaters go to jail that there may not be enough data on this.

Italiangreyhound · 10/04/2017 02:47

prh thanks for answering my questions. Can you also tell me if those who work in the law realise how much these kinds of outcomes make ordinary people lose faith in the law?

I can, of course, only speak for myself as a relatively ordinary person.

prh47bridge · 10/04/2017 08:11

The law protects the strong by analysing, excusing and minimizing the violence the victim has experienced

I disagree.

The difference between ABH and GBH is the level of injury caused. That affects the level of sentence - the more serious injury leads to the more serious charge. We then look at whether or not a weapon was used, whether or not the assault was repeated, the long term effects on the victim and other factors to determine the sentence. I'm not sure what you want us to do but we know that it is difficult to persuade juries to infer intent unless it is really obvious. They are, however, happy to differentiate on the level of injury.

In this particular case, if the prosecution could have proved the bleach incident and the words used, they may have been able to convict the accused of attempted murder despite the apparent lack of injury. The fact that he was not prosecuted for this suggests that, had they tried, he would have denied it, meaning that it would have been her word against his. In that case it would have been very difficult to get a conviction.

Just to be clear, he did not confess. If it was a plea bargain he agreed to plead guilty to ABH and admit the offences but did not provide a written confession. His admission came after the charges have been put and he had pleaded guilty. The prosecution cannot add further charges at this stage. If we allowed them to do so there would be no incentive for anyone accused of a crime to enter into a plea bargain so a lot more criminals would walk free without being convicted of anything.

The law is set up and run by men and benefits them IMHO

You have said this several times. It simply is not true. However, I'm clearly not going to persuade you since you seem to think that any woman who is involved in the law and does not agree with you is a misogynist, even if the woman concerned is a well known campaigner for women's rights.

But he will be able to pick up, ensnare and abuse other women, if he chooses, presumably.

Sending him to prison would not prevent him from doing that. Any new partner who uses Clare's Law will find out about this conviction even if he had not gone to prison. If he does re-offend the sentence will be worse as he will no longer be a first offender.

What was he told to do

He was ordered to attend a course to help him address his behaviour and pay £1,000 costs.

If there is a fine, who gets the money? The wife? Maybe she would rather he be locked up than be compensated! If the state, what does that make the fine?

It goes to the state and helps to fund the criminal justice system. Compensation for the wife is a separate issue. We don't know what the victim wanted in this case.

I do wonder if we can say categorically across all types of crime people sent to prison are more likely to re-offend

Yes we can.

Can you also tell me if those who work in the law realise how much these kinds of outcomes make ordinary people lose faith in the law

Everyone who works in law is well aware that people lose faith in the law through cases that are misreported, where the law is misunderstood or where the law is wrong. And prosecutors know that entering into a plea bargain can result in people feeling as you do regarding this case. However, their job is to secure convictions where possible. From their point of view, convicting the offender of something is better than him walking away without a conviction at all.

Whatever the courts think about it, they cannot change the law. That is for parliament.

Italiangreyhound · 11/04/2017 22:37

prh thank you for engaging.

You do not need to convince me, you might!

I do not object to any women, or men, working for fairness or equality.

I just feel modern society is largely fashioned by men, for men, and women do not always fair too well. Especially as wives and partners! But maybe I am assuming a bias where one does not exist.

I am not saying I am right! I am just expressing my frustrations!

I am in an area of low internet so not easy to get on line. Not ignoring this thread!

Italiangreyhound · 11/04/2017 22:38

Temporary in an area of low internet, I mean.

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