To not be surprised that the so-called terrorist had killing urges for a long time

[Lweji]

London attacker Khalid Masood: how hard-drinking, drug-taking village thug sought help over his urges to kill

I've just seen these headlines and just really need to post here after the discussion about this man on the Katie Hopkins thread.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/24/london-attacker-khalid-masood-hard-drinking-drug-taking-village/

Yes, terrorism is a problem, radical Islamic terrorism is a problem, as is radical white supremacist terrorism and violence.

But how many of these disturbed men are using such groups as excuses?
Is it a problem with these men or with those inciting them?

And if it's those inciting them, what's the difference between angry radical imams and ISIS calls for actions, and people spouting minority hate online or calling for military action that doesn't give a shit about civilians?

Coalition air strikes 'kill more than 200 people' in Mosul

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/23/coalition-air-strikes-kill-100-civilians-one-building-mosul/

I may be a bit angry with some twats that have gone on Fox, yes.

There's recognising the problem and then there's making it worse

Some might say having teachers call the police when a Muslim child wears a t shirt with a slogan

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/isis-propaganda-t-shirt-boy-east-london-teachers-mistake-terrorism-terror-a7164941.html

Or

"Other incidents included a 16-year-old student with learning difficulties who was referred to Prevent after borrowing a book about terrorism from the school library and a 17-year-old boy who was questioned by police officers after being referred to the programme for expressing support for Palestinian nationhood."

And other aspects of the Prevent strategy

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/23/prevent-counter-terrorism-strategy-schools-demonising-muslim-children

May be alienating young Muslims and might radicalise some who see the Government and media as being anti Muslim.

It would be ironic if a strategy designed to prevent radicalisation was actually radicalised people.

And why do you think someone of his background and tendencies to violence was driven to convert to Islam in prison

What draws anyone to join something?

Why do people join gangs? A sense of belonging, brotherhood, importance, power etc...

Must be lots of research done on that.

I don't think there's any question why he's found a path to extremist Islam.
If he was white he could have found a path to white supremacy extremism.
Or he could have gone on a rampage without either, as it's fairly likely considering his apetite for killing.

Personally - and it is just my opinion - I think the uk needs a shakeup right down to its social core to start addressing the issues.

There's far too much racism and people being hostile to immigrants. Pricks like tommy Robinson should be deported themselves (except that nowhere would take them). That needs to stop, and people need to realise that they are part of the problem. A big part.

There's also far too many communities where white brits are despised. I was in Tiger Tiger on 29 June 2007; I was one of the "slags" that someone thought deserved to die or be horribly mutilated just because I like to wear short skirts. That sort of attitude, especially towards women, has been imported from other countries and propagated in enclosed communities, and it's simply at odds with tolerant Britain. I was only told recently by a Somalian chap I was dealing with that he needed to speak to my boss because women were "too weak and emotional to understand the law" - I've been practising it for 25 years, for fuck's sake!

It needs open mindedness, education, and an understanding that your attitude matters and that you are not better than anyone else because of your beliefs, and that has to be belted out everywhere from schools to churches to mosques to parliament to the papers.

Lweji - so you think he was drawn to Islam just because he wasn't white???

so you think he was drawn to Islam just because he wasn't white

What did he see in the form of Islam he converted to? What was he told about the form of Islam?

He doesn't seem to have been part of any Muslim community.

That's kind of my point. If there are violent radicals being drawn to Islam - or rather an ideology claiming to be Islam, because it certainly isn't the religion that any of the Muslim people I know would recognise - why? Why Islam? why not Buddhism or Catholicism? What is it that is attracting people like him?

So if he was part of a Muslim community he couldn't have been drawn to a terrorist group

Abu Sayaf are another group who love their beheadings. Why are the violent people drawn there? How can we all combat it?

Maybe there are no answers and it's all gone too far

Why Islam? why not Buddhism or Catholicism

The only person who knows for sure is dead. Somehow someone was able to 'spin' a version of Islam that appealed to him. Maybe someone could have been converted to a form of Christianity if there was a message in it for them that appealed to some belief they had.

And yet this just isn't happening to the same degree with anything other than this warped form of Islam. There are no calls for mass slaughter from any other arena. For hugely complex reasons.

Which is why I think it is unhelpful to keep positing the same argument that meh, he could have identified with any group, other people do evil things too.

Which is why I think it is unhelpful to keep positing the same argument that meh, he could have identified with any group, other people do evil things too

I'd disagree with that - because there have been incidents of people killing others in shootings etc in the West. Along with hate attacks, hate murders etc.

You are right that there don't seem to be many groups calling for mass slaughter.

However - that call seems to have been ignored in the West - except for a few cases.

What triggers people to 'hear that call' - or other people to carry out acts of violence is what needs to be understood.

Lweji - so you think he was drawn to Islam just because he wasn't white???

No, he could have been attracted to many extremist groups or any violent ideology, or none. Just not "white supremacists", per definition. :)

There are no calls for mass slaughter from any other arena.

Aren't there? (quick google)
www.rawstory.com/2016/05/racists-urge-lone-wolves-to-slaughter-muslims-and-latinos-in-sacramento-leave-no-survivors/
www.haaretz.com/us-news/1.761410
www.racismreview.com/blog/2015/11/30/the-white-supremacy-of-anti-abortion-extremism/

Why are the violent people drawn there? How can we all combat it?

The first question is kind of obvious, the second is the most difficult part.

It seems to me that the success of groups like ISIS is due in large part to them managing to put that violence under one umbrella, thus creating fear, as well as anger.
We know that there are violent people in the world. Mass murderers, people who lose their minds, serial killers.
But, for some reason, putting some of those people under the same umbrella (ISIS in this case, but it could be a criminal gang) seems to make us more afraid than when we think of individual random actions.

In this case, both ISIS and the far right succeed in creating a division between society groups.

But highly violent groups that attract violent people who terrorise those they think as their enemy will always exist (from KKK to Boko Haram). Being cynical, they are like mushrooms. We can limit their actions, but we can't get rid of them completely.

There are no calls for mass slaughter from any other arena

It could be that we don't hear these calls because they aren't reported in the mainstream media. But people who have such beliefs may well hear those calls because they listen to such people.

If extreme white supremacists had the chance to carry out their beliefs in a lawless country and had access to weapons, who knows what could happen?

I agree with you Lweji

It's a man/mental health/ criminal/alienation problem, which certain groups are really good at exploiting. All of those things separated by / are linked.

And I agree with ego. ISIS functions as a criminal gang in prison

I wish that the 24 hour, rolling publicity that this event provoked could be stopped. This was a horrible, non-accidental event among many many others that happen every day. Elevating to the status of 'terorrism' does no-one any good.

I think that the attention here should be paid to mental health, the prison system, education and community cohesion.

Recent news about an attempt by a white supremacist to create a "white town" in the US, thankfully fought by the local population.
www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-columbia/former-vancouver-white-supremist-active-in-north-dakota-1.1864529

Meanwhile the police have found no evidence that the London attack was in coordination, nor what the motive was.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/25/westminster-attack-khalid-masoon-acted-alone

Also worth reading about his biography and comparisons with the usual terrorist attacks:
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/25/the-mystery-of-khalid-masoods-journey-into-violence-and-terror

More on white supremacism

www.adl.org/education/resources/reports/state-of-white-supremacy

The recent tragic shooting spree in June 2015 that took nine lives at Emanuel AME Church, a predominantly African-American church in Charleston, South Carolina, starkly revealed the pain and suffering that someone motivated by hate can cause. The suspect in the shootings, Dylann Storm Roof, is a suspected white supremacist. The horrific incident—following earlier deadly shooting sprees by white supremacists in Kansas, Wisconsin, and elsewhere—makes understanding white supremacy in the United States a necessity.

Remember that - a white man killed 9 people in a church occupied by a white supremacist