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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not be surprised that the so-called terrorist had killing urges for a long time

118 replies

Lweji · 25/03/2017 08:31

London attacker Khalid Masood: how hard-drinking, drug-taking village thug sought help over his urges to kill

I've just seen these headlines and just really need to post here after the discussion about this man on the Katie Hopkins thread.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/24/london-attacker-khalid-masood-hard-drinking-drug-taking-village/

Yes, terrorism is a problem, radical Islamic terrorism is a problem, as is radical white supremacist terrorism and violence.

But how many of these disturbed men are using such groups as excuses?
Is it a problem with these men or with those inciting them?

And if it's those inciting them, what's the difference between angry radical imams and ISIS calls for actions, and people spouting minority hate online or calling for military action that doesn't give a shit about civilians?

Coalition air strikes 'kill more than 200 people' in Mosul

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/23/coalition-air-strikes-kill-100-civilians-one-building-mosul/

I may be a bit angry with some twats that have gone on Fox, yes.

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egosumquisum1 · 25/03/2017 10:52

Yup. If he had sought his way to right-wing Christianity instead, his extreme religious views would probably not have been mentioned in the first place

That dog whistle again.

There are common links to such awful attacks. Male, personality, attitudes, easily influenced by others.

corythatwas · 25/03/2017 10:53

For those who expect all Muslims to apologise for the actions of ISIS, why were there never any calls for Ian Paisley to apologise for the actions of the IRA? He was a Christian, right?

yellow6 · 25/03/2017 10:58

For those who expect all Muslims to apologise for the actions of ISIS, ? stawman argument where has that been said on this thread?

corythatwas · 25/03/2017 11:04

It hasn't, yellow. This is a thread about the peculiar media coverage of the incident; that's why I thought it would fit in here. Not to criticise any posters who seem to be saying pretty much the same thing. Sorry if badly expressed.

SleepFreeZone · 25/03/2017 11:07

Your are correct. Violent angry man finds another reason to hurt, maim and kill in prison. He wasn't religious, he just decided to commit suicide under someone else's banner.

Werkzallhourz · 25/03/2017 11:21

The problem is that radical Islamist ideology provides an excuse for disturbed individuals to go out and commit acts of violence. It provides a justification.

Forty years ago, it would have been revolutionary Marxism; ninety years ago, it would have been Bolshevism; a hundred years ago, it would have been Anarchism.

The reality is that if all of us on this thread were subject to years of intense ideological propaganda, very few of us would ever then be able to get in a car and drive into a crowd of people. Crikey, even the vast majority of first world war soldiers couldn't shoot directly at the enemy, even when they were facing near death.

This is why I don't really buy "radicalisation". What you have are some very disturbed and violent people who are using Islamist ideology as a justification for their violent urges. The scary thing is that there are such an amount of these people around.

So the issue is two fold: the ideology and the violent individuals.

originalbiglymavis · 25/03/2017 11:24

Those who choose to murder in the name of religion will seek out the violent, weak minded or puppy-eyed idealist to do their dirty work. They will tell them that they are doing God's work and will earn their redemption for past sins. So I guess it is and it isn't religious terrorism. They may believe it, or may just want to make a big 'f-you all' gesture on their way out.

Nothing to do with the colour of his skin. There's that ginger twat and the Australian arse whose faces I have seen in association with daesh, and that white idiot lad whose parents were arrested for funding terrorism (not that there was any evidence of him doing nothing more than being stupid enough to want to go and live in such an environment).

And Jo Cox's murder was named as terrorism.

Funnyonion17 · 25/03/2017 11:35

To me it sounds like he chose extremism as a way to vent what's already inside him. Very scary indeed that he seemed to have a normal background aswell.

MrsTwix · 25/03/2017 11:42

Yellow, he was Adrian from Kent. I can call myself a Buddhist if I want, but it doesn't make me one. Maybe tomorrow I could be Hindu, but I don't want to stop eating burgers.

He was a psychopath and he was playing a religion as an excuse to kill people.

People like you love it because then you get to feel like your bigotry is somehow justified.

Why are you so scared of Muslims anyway?

LuxCoDespondent · 25/03/2017 11:57

I dislike the OP's use of the term "so-called terrorist" for this sick person. He was a terrorist who committed an act of terror. There is nothing "so-called" about this.

Oh, and Islamic fundamentalists are called "Muslims" because they are Muslims! They are extreme Muslims, they believe things that the majority of Muslims possibly do no agree with, but it is wrong to deny them their religion.

When a bunch of football thugs sing racist songs the media is awash with comments that "they are not real football fans". This is bullshit - they may well be "real football fans", they just happen to be racist thugs as well.

The same principle applies here. Someone who believes their version of Islam is the right one, that everyone should believe what they do and that it is justifiable to slaughter people on the basis that they do not agree - or just because they happen to live in a country where most people do not agree - is indeed an Islamic fundamentalist. But they are also a Muslim.

Above all, they are a sick, pathetic and worthless cunt.

Werkzallhourz · 25/03/2017 12:10

Why are you so scared of Muslims anyway?

I really don't think this question should be asked so flippantly. There are many reasons why people of other faiths and cultures are nervous of people from other cultures and religions, particularly in a conflict scenario or in the context of a past conflict scenario.

I dare say if you were a Lebanese Orthodox Christian, you'd be a little nervous of a Shia Muslim from a Hezbollah neighbourhood. To argue this is bigoted would be a very blockheaded response to a complex and intricate climate informed by conflict, terrorism, politics, Turkish imperialism, and history. Likewise, if you were to argue the same to a British Hindu or Sikh whose family has suffered under partition.

One must be careful not to dismiss people's fears, but rather address them and see how a situation can be resolved.

As someone from a mixed origin family, married to a DH from the Middle East, I do often detect a strange British imperialist attitude to Islam and Muslim communities in Britain, as though these communitites are a colonised people and thus not worth taking seriously, and should largely be left alone to live according to their traditions because they aren't very important apart from to harvest votes. It's the imperial attitude towards India writ large in Britain. This, I feel, is a huge mistake.

I would also argue that it is disconcerting to see a conservative theocratic phenomenon gain ground in Britain, and I would say the same if that phenomenon were of any other religion. The fact that we have young men to whom religion is an excuse to join a murderous band of proxy mercenaries intent on massacring, torturing, and oppressing towns and cities is concerning, to say the least.

To pretend otherwise, I believe, is somewhat naive.

Funnyonion17 · 25/03/2017 12:16

I agree with Mrs Twix

Couldn't have expressed it better myself!

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 25/03/2017 12:20

Front line soldiers were at one time picked from the most deprived areas

Gangs don't look for those to do their dirty work in nice middle class areas

Isis and other terrorists groups target mainly young men who feel angry at the way society has let them down, have little going for their future

And it is often at an age where they are more easily influenced and easily manipulated

I don't think their is much difference in the way young people are pulled into gangs as there is when they are pulled into terrorist groups they fall into a trap of feeling they have power yet what they are probably really wanting is control over their own lives

But of course this isn't the case for everyone who gets involved

LostSight · 25/03/2017 12:23

How can these men be identified and even helped?

He had been in prison. Maybe there was the chance to rehabiltate, educate and help, instead of the aim being punishment of someone who was obviously already very angry.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 25/03/2017 12:25

And I agree with Lux's post

It is possible to be of a religion believe in that religion and feel you are right to harm others in the name of that religion

It doesn't stop you being that religion just you are deluded to think you are doing God's work

yellow6 · 25/03/2017 13:16

I can call myself a Buddhist if I want, but it doesn't make me one. er it does actually there are no tests to religion why are you getting so defensive research no true scotsman fallacy

egosumquisum1 · 25/03/2017 13:32

yellow

Why are you so keen to say he was a Muslim? Is that important to you to say that?

Lweji · 25/03/2017 13:38

I dare say if you were a Lebanese Orthodox Christian, you'd be a little nervous of a Shia Muslim from a Hezbollah neighbourhood. To argue this is bigoted would be a very blockheaded response to a complex and intricate climate informed by conflict, terrorism, politics, Turkish imperialism, and history.

I agree, although I has mostly a geographical connotation as well as historical. Take those people out of the region of conflict and there's usually much less mutual fear.

OP posts:
Lweji · 25/03/2017 13:40

He was a terrorist who committed an act of terror. There is nothing "so-called" about this.

But if he was of another religion would we be calling him a terrorist?

OP posts:
originalbiglymavis · 25/03/2017 13:42

Yes because he did it with the motive to instill terror. His motivation appears to have to been religious/inspired by a religious terrorist group.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 25/03/2017 13:45

Maybe becuase he was a Muslim and Isis have claimed responsibility

As well as being a violent man

If he supported Isis he fits their profile recruit perfectly as he was willing to kill what they see as infidels

I think it's very important to not dismiss the influence Isis and other Islamic terrorists are having on be in a very very small of Muslims or those converting because it having a terrible and destructive impact on many societies

Lweji · 25/03/2017 13:47

What do we know about his actual motivation?

Did he really want to inspire terror, or did he just want to kill people, as his previous history would suggest?

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egosumquisum1 · 25/03/2017 13:47

His motivation appears to have to been religious/inspired by a religious terrorist group

Lots of people are inspired to commit acts of terror because of groups - but Hopkins and Farage and Trump only get concerned about Islamist groups who inspire people. Not right wing rhetoric that inspired people.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 25/03/2017 13:48

I don't know

I don't think there is one answer to what motivates terrorists

Lweji · 25/03/2017 13:49

Maybe becuase he was a Muslim and Isis have claimed responsibility

If I was head of ISIS and a Muslim man had conducted an attack and got killed, then I'd definitely claim it.

I'm not particularly convinced either way.

OP posts: