To wonder why 'thin is in'?

[loverofchoc]

DH and I were discussing this with a group of friends earlier today - why are all models now expected to be so thin?

Normally, nobody finds it attractive (obviously bar a few exceptions). The majority of men prefer at least some moderate feminine curves and the majority of females feel slightly sick looking at a really clinically underweight model. It's extremely damaging for these women who starve themselves to be in that profession and surely we'd all be more persuaded to buy stuff if the person modelling it looked happy and healthy...

I don't mean naturally skinny like some people who struggle to gain weight . I mean really, really, anorexic thin like a supermodel.

Any theories?

Most of the big fashion houses make far more money from their perfume lines than their clothes. The £50 bottle of perfume is the average Joanna's way of buying a piece of what they see on the catwalk. So even though only a small section of society buy the clothes the theatre of the catwalk is in a way also aimed at the people who can only afford to buy the perfume.

'Theatre of the catwalk' excellent turn of phrase.

I think that society's idea of beauty through the ages has almost always been about signifiers of wealth.

So there was a time when pale skin was beautiful, because it meant you didn't work in the fields, and being plump was attractive because it meant you could afford more than enough food.

And now tanned skin is desirable, because it means you can afford to go abroad.

And now food is plentiful for most, and the cheap and easy to get hold of stuff is sugary, fatty and carby, it's beautiful to be thin. Because it's rarer.

And while I love the 'strong not skinny' movement, I do think that's a wealth signified too, because on the whole being toned means you can afford a gym membership/personal trainer and the time to work out.

ShoutOutToMyEx I guess that makes sense. Maybe a subconscious thing?

I have a Facebook friend who is a personal trainer - she has an enviable physique. Some twat wrote on one of her photos 'You'll be up there if you get your waist thinner'

Who the hell do these men think they are? The sheer arrogance...and it proves my point that society thinks men have the right to judge women's bodies constantly.

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Slightly different point: but isn't attractiveness fashion to a certain extent? I am 50 and was always a magazine lover: thought the models in Vogue when I was young, absolutely beautiful. Now mainly I don't, not just the faces, but the way they stand, present themselves, are styled, directed. The clothes were always a bit weird.

I was looking at expensive coats on Selfridges website.They way again they were styled and worn was horrible. Didn't make the really classic lovely coats, look attractive to me, but it must to somebody - younger more fashionable people I would imagine.

What's wrong with the word 'thin'?? I would have thought thin is a fairly neutral word, 'skinny' on the other hand can be used disparagingly.
But maybe you're just determined to be offended.

I have never heard the word thin used as a compliment.
It's usually said in the context of

''she's too thin''

And now food is plentiful for most, and the cheap and easy to get hold of stuff is sugary, fatty and carby, it's beautiful to be thin. Because it's rarer.

Too true.
I know it's wrong, but you can usually tell a person's background by how large they are.

I definitely don't agree that rich people are usually thin. My daughter was at a posh girls school where I've never seen so many overweight children all in the same place in my life.

The richest adults I know usually eat out all the time and consequently they aren't thin either.

Most men prefer women of about 9 stone ish or at least not under 8 stone as that gets a bit too skinny. Up to and over 10 stone can look a bit over weight but obviously is not unhealthy. 16 stone and for health reasons you'd be better losing weight.

Because obviously women are all the exact same height and build
Should we all wear a size 6 shoe as well? Utter drivel.

I definitely don't agree that rich people are usually thin.

I agree that not all rich people are thin.
However, there are more poor people who are overweight than there are rich people who are overweight.

Maybe poor and rich are the wrong words to use.

But I know that in some towns I notice there are a lot of overweight people walking around than in other more affluent towns.

There is a link between poverty/social class and obesity. It's been discussed on mumsnet before.
My opinion on thin models is that the fashion industry is it's own little bubble. They couldn't care less about what the general public thinks.
When it comes to advertising things like perfume then suddenly they do care about what the plebs in the street think, so the models tend to look at least healthier, though still very slim.
I remember watching ANTM when the previous seasons winner made a return. She said that the first thing the modelling agency told her was to lose weight, and she had been a very slim attractive young woman. After her weight loss she looked flat chested and too thin really. I felt sorry for her and other young models who are pressurised to lose weight when they are already very slim. Hearing about models who die through anorexia is just shocking. It's a shame that the agencies and/or designers can't be held responsible in some way.
Equally sad is hearing stories (and I realise they may just be gossip) of models using laxatives, eating cotton wool and lets not forget using cocaine to keep their weight down.

My collar bone sticks out - I am underweight thank you very much. I find that statement offensive.

There may be a link between social class and eating habits. But let's face it, the UK is a very unhealthy place generally compared to other countries worldwide.

I've read most of the thread with my mouth open in part shock

I've genuinely not seen a rabid tear down of women by women in quite such a small space in quite a while

Here's a shocking innovative thought ....what about if we all accepted it's none of our fucking business...in terms of commenting on people specifically?

Yes as a general response negative female impressions should notake be encouraged in media ...that includes artificially driven weights (e.g. those that are created by forcing models to diet ) as well as ridiculous behaviour ala Katie Hopkins and her like....it's about encouraging positive behaviour in young women not just about how they look

But who in hell really thinks it's ok to debate whether a specific size is fat or thin? How ridiculously vapid and inane , size 14 on one person is not neccessarily fat but may be on another

If you're stuck focusing on a number and using that to belittle people (whether that is size 4 or 14) then look at yourself and ask how it all went wrong that you are so insecure you are desperate to find a tangible benchmark to make sure there are some people who will be worthy and some who will not be.....grow the hell up

If there are health issues....yes there is an impact , whilst there is a correlation it is not a automatic causation.....do some freaking research before jumping on a band wagon

Stop bloody judging and focus on yourselves not other people sheesh

Great post Eurip. Im a size 14 down from a 28 And the constant barrage of "size 14 is fat" on here after all the effort ive gone to shows that you cant live your life for other people because you cant please every fuckwit.

Good point about perfumes Sqoosh. Sometimes ppl do pay for a name I like Versace Red Jeans simply because its a lovely fragrance. I buy it when Boots has it down to £15 a bottle. I dont go for a name though ......i currently have a bottle of Blush perfume from New Look again because it smells lovely.

And just because its a "name" doesnt mean its any good. I had a bottle of Juicy Couture Malibu (bought when it was on offer) It smelled ok on the piece of card they sprayed the tester on so i bought it but once it had been on my skin a couple of hours i could barely smell it at all. I used it up I always do but wouldnt buy Malibu again.

Regarding people's collar bones sticking out, it depends on how and where they carry their weight. My collarbones are starting to show and my BMI is 29, so nowhere near underweight.
When I get down to to BMI of 25 or so I expect my upper chest will look a little bit bony (it did before). I lose weight from those areas first while I still carry fat in other places.
People on here love to come out with these little 'gems' as if they're the gospel truth. It isn't, people are built differently.

no effing i dont lose it from my boobs. Im a 32HH now I was a 46G before weight loss.

Unfortunately im carrying some loose skin on my stomach Ive actually had two ppl (both women) tell me that i can excersise this off Thats how stupid people are.

I love the 10 stone starting to be overweight thing. At 10 stone my bmi would be 19.6, at the apparent ideal 9 stone it would be 17.56. From experience at that point I stop menstruating and get covered in downy hair which most men didn't find attractive

ShoutOutToMyEx - I've just finished reading a book based in the Tudor times (just as Henry VIII is getting ready to divorce No. 4 wife), and there was a bit about the fashionable ladies blackening their teeth to give the impression they were wealthy enough to eat sugar regularly - sugar was rare, expensive and only for the rich - and even then usually as a treat, to eat it enough for black teeth was a sign you were very rich. The ultra-white celeb teeth considered desirable now would be a sign of poverty then.

Fashion has often been about what's unattainable. Height has long been considered beautiful, often this is because to be tall, you need to have had a couple of generations of good diets with plenty of protein. 'New money' could copy a lot of fashions, but were stuck with shortness. As a nation we are getting taller as well as fatter as we have the majority of the population having enough food to eat.

YY Petal MN is turning into the online version of Closer/Now type magazines.

It's not "now", models have always been slim/skinny because clothes hang better on them.

That's why they're models.

Different shapes go through different fashions. In previous centuries, a little plump was fashionable and "ideal" because it meant being wealthy enough to eat well. I don't actually know what the reasoning is behind thin being in- I think it started with Twiggy and supermodels- probably to do with clothes hanging so well on thin women?

I don't think being thin necessarily= unattractive. Nor does being obese=unattractive, IMO. Some men love skinny women, others don't. Obviously I agree it is unhealthy for women to starve themselves into thinness, but remember some women are naturally thin or have illnesses that make weight gain difficult. Compassion and kindness is important, and I would include anorexia as an illness that deserves compassion, same as binge eating or bulimia often cause obesity, which also deserves compassion

Size 14 is overweight. Not excessively so, but definitely a bit plump. Unless you're something like 6'.