To get annoyed when dd(6) learns about Christianity?

[MooPointCowsOpinion]

She is at a non-religious, normal state primary. She is the type of kid who remembers everything she's told and parrots it back, so I hear about her entire day every day at school. Almost every day she tells me they sang this song about Jesus, learnt that story about Jesus, learnt this lesson about Christianity. Every assembly they sing a Christian song.

I am an atheist. I don't want her to learn just about Christianity, all religions are important in a 'this is what some people believe' kind of way but I feel like they're indoctrinating her into Christianity by pushing it so much. I try to counter it by teaching her other religious beliefs and telling her my beliefs, but I know the steady drip drip of information could plant a seed that could lead to what I would consider radicalisation.

I've brought it up with her teacher, she's sympathetic and has given us the option to opt-out but I'd hate for her to feel singled out and to miss important things in assemblies.

Does/did it bother you? AIBU to be annoyed?

wavybluesky, without proof it is not fact. Without actual evidence of a deity's existence, that equates to there not being such a thing until it presents itself. I don't have a belief - there is no evidence what so ever of a deity, therefore currently fact shows one does not exist. Your belief one exists is purely based on faith and feelings. You're entitled to that of course, but the absence of evidence leads it to be currently not fact. For example, I can't say 'Superman is real' because no one can currently prove otherwise, it's distorting the truth to fit my ideology. It's a belief until it's proven otherwise.

That is an excellent point Ollieplimsoles - and is a problem with religion generally, and is why one should never let religion stand in the way of faith (the two things being related, but not necessarily tied to each other.) However this thread started as being about the average C of E school - and while certainly the C of E's position on homosexuality is not yet perfect (gay marriage still not welcome in a church - though same sex blessings are unofficially happening) the church does stand against homophobia. So (slow) progress. But certainly no school child in a C of E should be learning that homosexuality is wrong/ a sin etc. within the context of a C of E education - though what should be being taught is the historical context in which the bible was written, and why, for instance, shellfish was deemed 'unclean'. (It was likely to off, and therefore potentially fatal.) But to return to your point, I'd be amazed if a primary school pupil was able to locate the verses in Genesis/ Romans etc. that have historically been used as argument that homosexuality is wrong.

Edmund Cleverclogs but we use stories to put points across all the time - whether it's learning from past history (literally - 'lest we forget') or looking at the tortoise and the hare. Why not use the New Testament too, especially as there is so much great art on the subject, and it is referenced in so much of our literary history - if it is not taught, we are literally leaving out bits of the puzzle that have shaped our country and society over centuries. There joy to be found, later in life, in, say, studying fresco cycles in Italian churches - or simply wandering around the Renaissance galleries in the National Gallery - and that joy is increased if you know the stories and can therefore work out what is going on. And some of them are crackingly good stories.

Edmund no you can't say there is no God as fact, sorry. It isn't proven there is a God but that doesn't make it fact there isn't one. You dont know.

Thats my theory on santa as well

Puffykins, you've somewhat missed my point. I have an issue with it taught without it being made clear that it is stories from the Middle East, as opposed to historical fact. It is when stories from religion are presented as fact (God says, Jesus died for us, follow the 10 commandments, etc), that I take issue. In school, these stories should never be suggested to be the truth or historically accurate in any way.

Art and literature based on religion, especially in a historical context, is a slightly different matter. It is no different from looking at the impact any other ancient religions had on the world. To be honest, Greek, Roman, Pagan/Celtic religion and mythology is far more interesting than the Bible to me, but that's the great thing about looking at these myths and stories from a historical interesting perspective.

wavybluesky I'm afraid you're not understanding what fact is. Fact isn't something that is until proven otherwise. Not having 100% proof that there isn't a deity doesn't equate to 'well it must be a fact there is one because you can't prove otherwise '. Without any shred of evidence there is a god, you cannot support that there 'may be one'. There 'may be' other intelligent life out there, but unless they come visit us or we discover them, we take it as fact that they do not exist.

I think that this thread is itself a very good argument for getting rid of all religious instruction in schools and replacing it with religious education.

I'm seeing a lot of assertions about 'what Christians believe', which have very little in common with what most of the Christians I know believe. I suspect that religious assemblies in schools mean that most people have roughly the theological knowledge of an 8 year old because they stopped listening by the time they were 10. And the sort of Christians who do assemblies in schools tend by the very nature of the whole thing to be at the telling people what to think and do end of the spectrum. So there is a general set of assumptions about what Christianity is which doesn't really reflect the actual views of the people involved.

Ah - got you Edmund - sorry. Though I don't think fact and fiction are as clearly delineated for a young child - so my point is that I don't think it really matters if a young child is taught it as fact - they will learn to question it later, when their minds have developed further. I'm equally fine with it all being presented as a series of stories - which a child may later look at in more depth and find a kernel of something that leads to faith. Or not. My main point being I don't think a C of E education does any overt harm....

Wish I wasn't allowed to do RE at school I was fcking traumatised by the stories of Jesus nailed to the coffin also we was going to die in flood. Don't ever remember learning about other religions either.

Don't worry just wait until your child learns about smoking and they come home crying because you going to die.

Cross not coffin

Edmund but i haven't said any of that. I haven't said it's fact there is a God. But you said it's fact there isn't one. I know its a very easy argument if i had said that but i don't ever fall into that trap.

I would be annoyed. I specifically chose non church schools because I don't want them indoctrinated into any religion.

There is a difference between learning about all religions from an unbiased point of view, which they do in our infant and junior school, and participating in songs and prayers which indicate "this is what we believe".

The 'daily act of worship' thing is totally down to interpretation. Neither of our schools says prayers or sings hymns in assembly. They sing other songs, and hear stories with morals such as kindness, tolerance etc.

It amazes me how many non religious people are not bothered about the religious stuff being stuffed into their kids in church schools. Not all schools introduce religion in this way.

Living in Ireland, opting out of religious schools is pretty much impossible. My child is literally the only non catholic in the school. (everyone else is catholic.......not that the majority bother with mass )
Anyhow, it pisses me off that the beliefs are taught as fact......in the same way that maths, geography and reading???????

I'm at pains to tell him that the catholic institution is not a nice place for women and children and that the teachers in the school would be fired if they didn't teach what the church demands.

The church deserves no respect given the damage they have done to Ireland. vile organisation imo.

It is currently a fact that there isn't one, because there is no evidence one exists. There is a belief there's a God, or deity or whatever supernatural you want to believe in, that means there may be one who does not care to present themselves at this moment. It is a hypothesis that is yet to be proven. Without the proof, the black and white of it is that there is no supernatural deity as a fact. I may well be proven wrong, but currently there is no solid evidence to contradict the fact.

Oh by the way my daughter's junior school had a humanist minister in to talk to them as part of RE. Bet you don't get that in a church school.

Broomstick and I have already said you are wrong if you say ALL state schools have christian assemblies, ours don't. One of mine has an outstanding Ofsted too. It is totally down to the school/head what the content of assemblies is.

edmund your belief in a god is one thing- but the power the religious institutions have is quite another.
I only have experience id the catholic institution in Ireland. Seriously- it's vile. They stole babies and sold, some of them, raped others and threw the ones they killed in sewage pits..........the church is not compelling their members to co operate with the authorities. The limited amount of damages that the church agreed to pay the children that were raped by priests have not been paid.........I think even APPLE INC have a better moral compass

I know.... but I don't feel that there are actually any barriers to being religious and scientific. I don't believe the Bible is meant to be taken literally. I know quite a few other people who accept that doubt and intellectualism ARE valid parts of a Christian outlook. But those people aren't usually on the internet pontificating about stuff because they think others are allowed their own opinion.

The Church certainly has done a lot of bad

It is currently a fact that there isn't one
No it isn't.

wavybluesky, ok, please present your facts to the contrary.

Ignore Agree about the smoking / dying thing from school.

Have a sensitive child..

We are atheists but chose to send ours to a C of E primary out of catchment.

Our reasoning was that we could redress the balance of the religious stuff by ensuring that the kids were (are) aware of the fundamentals of a variety of religions. They did learn a bit about Judaism and Islam but we have done more at home. We have also had open discussions about our personal beliefs.

DH and I are both atheists because of what we learnt about religion it has been an informed choice. Surely that's a good thing?

I don't have to present any facts though because i haven't made a statement of fact. You have. To state something as fact as you have, you have to be 100% certain of something.