To get annoyed when dd(6) learns about Christianity?

[MooPointCowsOpinion]

She is at a non-religious, normal state primary. She is the type of kid who remembers everything she's told and parrots it back, so I hear about her entire day every day at school. Almost every day she tells me they sang this song about Jesus, learnt that story about Jesus, learnt this lesson about Christianity. Every assembly they sing a Christian song.

I am an atheist. I don't want her to learn just about Christianity, all religions are important in a 'this is what some people believe' kind of way but I feel like they're indoctrinating her into Christianity by pushing it so much. I try to counter it by teaching her other religious beliefs and telling her my beliefs, but I know the steady drip drip of information could plant a seed that could lead to what I would consider radicalisation.

I've brought it up with her teacher, she's sympathetic and has given us the option to opt-out but I'd hate for her to feel singled out and to miss important things in assemblies.

Does/did it bother you? AIBU to be annoyed?

there is no acceptance that there is even an iota of positivity with people having faith. Faith and religion can also be a force for good

Yes it can. Religion is a private thing. I can't see why schools should be forced to carry out an act of collective worship.

It's not being banned. People can still carry it out. It still gets taught in schools.

It maybe a bit more difficult in the younger years

Not really. No prayers in school. No assemblies on how great God is. Just don't mention God in assemblies.
Unless you go to a C of E school.

Just caught up with the thread, some great points made.

I'm in the same boat as edmund ill be teaching my child to question everything politely if she is unsure.

I too really dislike the concept of original sin- spouted by some branches of Christianity. I dont like the idea of heaven and hell and that god is 'watching' and
most disturbing of all: 'god's plan'... if I hear talking about that ill be stamping it out right away.

ego

I cant personally see a problem with it at any age

They seem to talk about morals and ethics in the senior school

The same thing could be done for the litte ones

It's the way the curriculum is written (or at least it is in Scotland) Christianity is taught as fact & 'other world religions' are taught as interesting fiction & some people believe. IMO RE should all be taught as some people believe and school should be secular.

No this is not true. No agreed syllabus (the curriculum for RE in non-faith schools) states any religion to be true. They do favour Christianity (makes up 50%) but they should never be teaching it as true.

COLLECTIVE WORSHIP and RE are two completely separate things. This is another myth that is constsntly encouraged in threads like this "they shouldn't be teaching it as true, why can't they teach all the religions blah blah blah"

WE DO. IN RE. The op is talking about WORSHIP (aka assembly).

If you don't like it then withdraw your child and write to the government. Start a petition maybe.

The same thing could be done for the litte ones

I don't think there's any issue with learning about morals and ethics from religious and non religious stories.

I don't understand the need for collective worship.

COLLECTIVE WORSHIP and RE are two completely separate things

Indeed.

YANBU, this happened to my DC, and its not just the assemblies, its integrated into art, music, science, story time, trips, lunch time.... complaints to the school got me no where so I had to find a different school.

Secondary schools never seem to have this 'daily act of broadly christian worship', yet oddly a lot of primary schools push this hard.

You get a lot of 'older' teachers in primaries who think its their job to teach pupils to be good god fearing children. Secondaries seem to have younger teachers who haven't been indoctrinated this way.

This sort of ignorance should be banned in school, its dangerous.

I don't understand the need for collective worship.

Neither do i

I didnt pay much attantion in infants and juniors and i know they dont do it in seniors

They only do RE til year 9 when they choose their options

To put your mind at rest OP, my daughter came home at 5 with Jesus this and God that from learning about it at school. She is now 10 and refers to any God as 'a great mythical being in the sky' with an eye roll (though not in the presence of people other than me and her Dad as everyone is entitled to their believes and that might phrase offend them).
She's currently experimenting with believing in Norse gods as she read a good book of myths recently 😂

I really wouldn't worry too much. YANBU to expect schools to talk about all religions (and none), rather than just Christianity. But I doubt it's going to 'radicalise' her!!
What kind of school did you go to? Plenty of people sing hymns and have Christian teaching at school and dont become indoctrinated.
Equally, it would be a shame if you pushed your atheist views on to your DD before she's had chance to make up her own mind...

Quoted from: www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/281929/Collective_worship_in_schools.pdf

Collective worship in county schools and equivalent grant-maintained
schools must be wholly or mainly of a broadly Christian character,
though not distinctive of any particular Christian denomination.

The 1988 Act requires all syllabuses to 'reflect the fact that the religious traditions in Great Britain are in the main Christian whilst taking account of the teaching and practices of the other principal religions represented in Great Britain'.

The law has always stated that agreed syllabuses must be
non-denominational. Accordingly, they must not require teaching by
means of any catechism or formulary which is distinctive of any particular religious denomination. Teaching about a particular catechism or formulary, for example as part of a comparative study, is not prohibited. Syllabuses must not be designed to convert pupils, or to urge a particular religion or religious belief on pupils.

Anon in your situation you were right to complain. In non denominational schools worship should be confined to specific times.

Why do some schools, particularly secondaries not do it? Because its one of those things that the government and ofsted say are VERY important but they never check up on and I would bet money that 90% of inspectors and the Education Secretary herself do not know what the requirements are.

Disclaimer: I dont agree with the requirements.

I was at a school with regular prayers and church etc but even has a kid I had my own mind and thought at it.

My dd goes to a small RCSCHOOL and they do daily prayers etc with totems of the Virgin Mary sitting in the corner of every classroom. I don't believe in it but I wouldn't stop my dd believing if she did, it's the risk I took sending my dc to a religious school.

I do tell her about other religions and their beliefs and gods etc. Once a year focus on another religion doesn't stand a chance agains daily prayers though.

it would be a shame if you pushed your atheist views on to your DD before she's had chance to make up her own mind

Everybody's atheist until they're told that there is a god/gods and they start to believe it.

'Worship' is not defined in the legislation and in the absence of any suchdefinition it should be taken to have its natural and ordinary meaning.
That is, it must in some sense reflect something special or separate fromordinary school activities and it should be concerned with reverence or veneration paid to a divine being or power.

However, worship in schools will necessarily be of a different character from worship amongst a group with beliefs in common. The legislation reflects this difference in referring to 'collective worship' rather than 'corporate worship'.

I've always wondered if this leglisation can be used to prove God exists.

(That's the quote from the DFE circular)

The 'broadly Christian aspect' is often gotten around by schools but having a thought of the day/week, like 'caring' or 'working together', which is why some schools look like they aren't doing it. The kids may not even be aware of what the thought is, it might be mentioned on Monday morning in the register and then forgotten.

I am Pagan, so I just have to accept that for the most part any teaching on my beliefs is as mythology. Most schools don't even mention the existence of modern Pagans, because we are still the big bad evil witches who 'need to be burnt at the stake and deserve to burn in hell' as my mother once told me.

I won't argue that Pascha is a broadly Christian event, though it does come from Passover and has remarkably similar aspects of tradition to Passover. Only English speaking countries call it Easter, and Bede informs us this name comes from Ēosturmōnaþ (Month of Ēostre), which was roughly April, when the pre-Christian Anglo-Saxon community celebrated her.

Christmas has bugger all to do with Jesus, and we all know it. He was born in lambing season, so either spring or autumn.

Yes, the UK is a Christian country. BUT that doesn't mean other religions are worth less, and does not mean everyone should be forced into Christianity either.

it would be a shame if you pushed your atheist views on to your DD before she's had chance to make up her own mind
Atheism is not a view, its the lack of a view. And as such cant be pushed on anyone.

Atheism is not a view, its the lack of a view. And as such cant be pushed on anyone

I can imagine an uproar if there was a Collective Act of Daily Atheism where the Headteacher and teachers all told the children there was NO GOD and we had songs and poems saying there is no God.

The Daily Mail would be in uproar. As would the Church. And other faith groups

But we don't have that. We do have an Act of Daily Worship though where Headteachers and teachers have to say there is a God.

The UK is technically a Christian county but hardly anyone in it still believes in the teachings of Christianity. It would be more true to say that the UK used to be is still just about, just culturally Christian.

The requirement for a christian assembly is one of those laws that has been consigned to history. No one has bothered to repeal it because its not worth the hassle. In reality no school is made to do it, they only do because they are pushing a belief system.

No one has bothered to repeal it because its not worth the hassle

I wonder what would happen if there was a bill / circular to repeal it.

Just to state: Schools do not have to have an act of collective worship.

Equally, it would be a shame if you pushed your atheist views on to your DD before she's had chance to make up her own mind...

Yeah how terrible of us to 'push' the truth on our children before the church has an opportunity to try and convince them that man-made stories about a god from 2000 years ago are true .

I really wish that we could not teach religion at all until children were adults. Just not mention it, let the adults keep it private until kids come of age. Only then could they really make a mature decision about whether to believe or not.

I can imagine an uproar if there was a Collective Act of Daily Atheism

Seriously do you even know what atheism is? It is not a belief system, there is no collective body of atheist teachings or laws. There is nothing to sing about.

I suppose you could teach children critical thinking. Oh wait that's what we already do in every class except RE. So what would the uproar be?

In the curriculum they will learn about all the major faiths. As were a C of E country, I think it's long been a thing that hymns sung in assemblies have a theme sometimes.

My children have been bought up with faith, but don't actively worship. But they are taught about their faith and what it means. Like friendship, forgiveness, being nice, not judging others. I think it's a really good back bone to have in their education. It teaches that with faith there are expectations for you to behave in a certain way. Some might argue this should be done without the religious input.

Faith is a personal choice, I wouldn't get too het up over a lesson. If we bear in mind she might have been taught about Easter, I think it's good that children understand the significance of festivals. Like in our house Christmas isn't about a 5 foot high by 5 foot square pile of presents, like it is to some, they are taught the reason for the celebration.

I think it's sad people will go all out for such occasions for no real purpose.

A bit like Diwali, Chinese New Year, other examples of occasions which a rich history, that will enhance our children if they know about it.

I consider it no different to explaining anything they may ask. I want my children to have a vast knowledge of everything they can absorb. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea. But I see no harm in it.

I wonder what would happen if there was a bill / circular to repeal it

I imagine there would be a Daily Mail headline "Satan to be worshiped in schools" (ironic as Satan is a Christian deity). Then at the next election the church would mobilise a few thousand voters to bang the drum about declining moral standards....and with hind sight, like gay marriage, most people would say "what was the fuss about"?