To think I've just wasted 5 hours in A&E

[Littlelanecountrygirl]

DD hurt her finger at school yesterday. This morning it was swollen and v painful.

Dutifully head to minor injuries where they X-ray it expecting they'll just strap it up. Radiographer and nurse both say it can't be strapped and needs a cast. It's the fifth metacarpal in her hand not her finger. Hand swollen and can't bend little finger anymore.

Turn up at A&E which is like a war zone. No seats, no floor space standing room only. See the nurse after 30 mins she agrees it needs a cast, wait for doctor.

4 hrs and 10 minutes later the doctor calls us in. Abruptly accuses DD of punching something and that she has a boxers fracture. DD repeated that she didn't punch anything, injury was at school when she collided with a friend in PE. Doctor says well ok then (eye rolls at her) manipulates her finger round (DD has tears now) and then says

Oh we can just strap that .

Two bits of tape around her finger, not even a splint. DD crying in pain still and a £6 parking ticket later we finally leave.

Surely we could have just had it strapped in minor injuries 4 hours earlier?!

Hand and foot fractures are technically complicated and need the opinion of an orthopaedic registrar. I speak as one who now walks with a stick as the houseman did not notice the second fracture in my foot, which has never set.

Worth waiting I think to get an opinion from someone with more expertise. But I do understand your frustration. Hope she will be better soon.

Some people on this thread are seriously saying that everyone should be grateful for poor treatment, unpleasant comments, misdiagnosis, and long waits because in developing countries there are children dying and in America health care is expensive. A bit like the 1980s school dinner lady classic "be grateful for your cold smash and congealed gristle, there are children starving in Africa!"

There are a lot of countries with free at the point of use healthcare and insurance which is a percentage of income, state regulated and paid by the state for those on benefits. The NHS is a unique model but that isn't necessarily good any more and certainly isn't the only free at the point of use model.

Telling people to put up and shut up and be grateful is obnoxious, as is telling people doctors are right because they are doctors and questioning an individual doctor's judgement is somehow taboo. Ask 5 doctors get 5 different opinions often, medicine isn't an exact science, people make mistakes, the NHS is no longer working properly. Of course it's perfectly reasonable to be irritated by hours of wasted time just as you would be if a teacher or a lawyer or an architect or a social worker or any other professional had wasted 5 hours of your time and left you worried that their dismissal of your problem was going to have reprocussions for your child.

Appreciating being lucky by accident of birth, having been born in western Europe not a developing country, a war zone, or America is one thing and valid, bit saying this means you have to be grateful for even poor treatment just because it could be worse, and demonising anyone who isn't simperingly grateful and in awe of people who chose a medical degree instead of another profession is a good way to ensure things continue to get worse.

Drayton. The government are pushing a 4hr wait target so, yes, if that is the case, 5 hrs is unacceptable and, yes, you could complain to your MP, manager, PALS or anyone whow could listen. If you get piss in the shop you complain to the manager and then if you get an unsatisfactory response you've gradually work your way up so I guess it would work the same way for the NHS.

As for private care, it difficult to see if it would work at the moment as it's quite niche in this country so it's certainly wouldn't be fluffy carpets or whatever. It will be your Bog standard NHS hospital which charges money and would basically offers same care. I think people like to sell you on the idea that private is better but I'm not convinced like many people. I do think this government's trying to run down the NHS and I really don't think People Help by being grateful for how the NHS is now because it's free. At what point do we say it's not good enough whether they charge or not? Surely the answer is objective anyway? It either is or it isn't

5moreminutes doctors are not right all the time, indeed they are often wrong. Second opinion is required if you have been told one thing and you continue to experience another. That is where the NHS is great you can have a second, third or fourth opinion.

Poor treatment is never tolerated in the West or in developing countries it is just that in the later you don't have a chance of having even poor treatment. If you tell a Health care professional that your have fallen off a 4 meter ladder and now you can't walk and he said home and take paracetamol then he or she should not work until they have been re-educated. However, if it took the system 5 hours to diagnosis a broken leg or not as the case may be then the time is not wasted, it was used to see and treat you within the constraint of the system. To use your analogy cold mash and congealed gristle sustains life, starvation kills. You can only appreciate the terror of no healthcare once you have experience it. Otherwise you write from a theoretical, ideological prospective.

Madrads you are essentially pointing out the difference between living in western Europe (and some other countries - Israel, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Canada... and quite a few others) and being poor in one of the developing countries (or America) ...

The UK's national health isn't the only free at the point of use health care system - over twenty countries in Europe have universal health care.

We should all be grateful in an abstract sense not to have been born poor in a war zone or a developing country or America... but that does not mean we have to put up with everything our governments chuck at us out of desperate gratitude not to be living in Eritrea or Syria. Nobody ever suggests not standing up for women's right to equal treatment because it is worse in Afghanistan, or not complaining about issues at school because hardly any children get to go to school in Somalia... Yet we are constantly told never to complain about the NHS because it could be worse... It is a strange taboo which a lot of people vehemently defend in a way which suggests they inexplicably believe that the choice is the NHS or nothing at all and are unaware of all the other free at the point of use models around the world...

Some complaints are more equal than others to paraphrase George Orwells animal farm. To complain that a doctor was rude or that he made a blatant misdiagnosis is understandable. This is like campaigning to end honour base violence or for the education of girls. we want our doctors to be competent and well mannered but if I have to chose I will settle for competent. To complain about time taken to reach the diagnosis in a non life threatening situation is, in my opinion unreasonable given what we hear on the news. It is like complaining that scarce campaign resources should be used to allow girls to wear make up or trousers as they do in the west. In both situations you are campaigning for women's right but there is a big difference in that outcome for a girl, success in on campaign means that she lives.

There may be other free at the point of delivery Health care systems in the world but none as integrated and as diverse and free of conditions and stipulations as the Nhs. From the minute you call 999 it is free, there is no seperate fee for the ambulance, there is no upper limit of use, you can visit your gp or a/e as many times as you can, there is no upper limit of appointments after which you start paying. Until recently there were few exclusions you can have your acne as well as your cancer treated. You don't need 17 items of identity to move from one Gp to another , when you move from wales to Scotland you are not worried that you health care cover will not work in Scotland. Perhaps we need to start a new thread rather than hijack this Op's thread.

Hear, hear, madrads

You do have to pay for an ambulance in a Road Accident and many treatments and prescriptions are not available on the NHS anymore but at least you don't pay every time you visit a GP Like Ireland.

You do have to pay for an ambulance in a Road Accident

The insurance company pay as part of the claim.

I was sent an ambulance invoice directly when I ran someone over. Insurance weren't involved as no damage to my car.

What I mean us that the NHS recovers some funds. Whether it be an individual or Insurance company. ( increased premium)