To think I've just wasted 5 hours in A&E

[Littlelanecountrygirl]

DD hurt her finger at school yesterday. This morning it was swollen and v painful.

Dutifully head to minor injuries where they X-ray it expecting they'll just strap it up. Radiographer and nurse both say it can't be strapped and needs a cast. It's the fifth metacarpal in her hand not her finger. Hand swollen and can't bend little finger anymore.

Turn up at A&E which is like a war zone. No seats, no floor space standing room only. See the nurse after 30 mins she agrees it needs a cast, wait for doctor.

4 hrs and 10 minutes later the doctor calls us in. Abruptly accuses DD of punching something and that she has a boxers fracture. DD repeated that she didn't punch anything, injury was at school when she collided with a friend in PE. Doctor says well ok then (eye rolls at her) manipulates her finger round (DD has tears now) and then says

Oh we can just strap that .

Two bits of tape around her finger, not even a splint. DD crying in pain still and a £6 parking ticket later we finally leave.

Surely we could have just had it strapped in minor injuries 4 hours earlier?!

A similar incident between two kids in my daughters pe class childs also had fingers strapped together

a few years ago my daughter was running back from girls brigade and looked back at me a neighbour had put their wheelie bin out on the pavement and my daughter obviously didnt see it She banged stariaght into it injuring her head & side of face all i saw was blood i picked her up and took her home to find she had dislodging two teeth and cut the inside of her mouth and lip i managed to get the bleeding slowed down and took her to casualty by bus 1hr journey only to wait over three hrs to be seen and told we cant do anything about her teeth no dentist available .. No extra check for head injury .. inside her mouth was still bleeding and all they said was give her calpol for pain and take her to the dentist next morning/ who was horrified at the damage in her mouth she had to have two teeth extracted and a third was loose but manaqge to save it NO dentist available .. i wonder if it had been the same if it had been someone drunk or in a fight got the same service as a 6 yr old child

It's not the nurses' or radiographer's job to make the diagnosis, but the doctor's. Your 5 hours was well spent.

It isn't a free Health Service, we pay for it through our taxes.

If it was a specialist then the call was made that it didn't need a cast. I got a call agreeing with my thought that my ankle was broken a week after A and E told me to stop making a fuss! You may still get a call saying it needs a cast.

OP I hope your daughter has a much better and more positive experience at fracture clinic. It's a long wait to be treated rudely. And yes, I'm sure the doctor was tired and busy Nd hardworking but horrible to be on the receiving end of their bad day.

Hi , I think you should complain about the way the doc spoke to your daughter , he had no right to be be so rude and make her cry

I hope that she is feeling better soon xx

My goodness, the OP's sense of entitlement beggars belief.

People's flagrant disrespect for those working within a woefully under-resourced and yet outstandingly professional NHS is shocking.

OP, what exactly were you expecting from your outing to the A&E?

I have been on both sides of the doors in A/e. I have been on the minors side and waited 6 hours and on the majors side with my son where it took 1 hour from arrival to theatre. He had a burst appendix. On both occasions I was grateful for the FREE NHS. You will not get any complaints from me even if the health care professional roll their eyes at me. Why? Because I have lived in developing countries where my son would have died because I cannot pay, children due now for want of amoxicillin. I read also about paying our taxes paying for the NHS. The same tax that you want your schooling, policing, environmental services etc .... Go live in America (I have relatives there) then you will see the true cost of health. You pay £2000 a month for top health cover and there will still be exclusion for preexisting disease. The only reason the NHS works is because of the dedication of the staff, the work unpaid overtime every day and the fact that only 30% of the population uses it at any one time. OP asked if she should accept any care because it is free, the answer is yes. Unless she could afford £800 that morning then in another country there would have been no care at all.

I expect the doctor was joking about the punch. It obviously was the wrong thing to do at that time, as it turned out. Another child might have enjoyed the joke.

There is a vast difference between a nurses training and a doctors. That's why their jobs have different titles. The doctor has more training. I'm not sure what your problem is? You waited as your daughters injury wasn't life threatening.

It depends very much how the doctor said the thing about punching someone. Quite a few doctors might say something like that with a smile and a twinkle in their eye trying to put a kid at ease. Another dr I work with has a very dry sense of humour and would say it but sound serious. The amount of times I've realised someone is a bit nonplussed by what he's said and had to jump in with a "he's joking" are quite a few.

Disrespect for NHS workers? I don't see much of that. I see dissatisfaction with the system, and distrust for individual professionals who have lost their patient's respect by the way in which they have treated them (on a clinical or interpersonal level), which seems absolutely fair enough.

Yes am I entitled to butch about the doctor who failed to diagnose. Y sisters Kung cancer. Meaning that she died a painful death. Or the A and E doctor and GP who both failed to diagnose my mums stoke (well probably one TIA and a full blown stroke which seriously impacted on her quality of life. Resulted in Her heart surgery being cancelled. Her heart condition probably caused the fall which eventually caused the blood clot which killed her. Even invite last day of her life they sent her away thinking all was OK. It was only later when things deteriorated that she was admitted to a proper hospital where she was ventillated and never came round .
But the treatment was free a point of delivery so I should be grateful right.
Op Yanbu. I hope that A and E doctor was right and the nurse and radiographer was wrong.

Sorry for auto-correct errors.

Lake cancer does lead in most cases to a reduction in life expectancy but not a painful death. Doctors and nurses do not fail to diagnose conditions they come up with a diagnosed given the current symptoms which with later symptoms proved to be wrong. NHS staff go to work daily with the intention of saving life, not to miss diagnosis and loose life. You should be grateful because without the NHS you relative may not have lived as long as she did. Thecuutbt cost of A Heart operation is £17000, can go up to £35000, cost of ITU bed per night is £2000, MRi or ct scan £500 to £800. You should be grateful for this service. You should thank good you never have to race around looking for an unsecure loan, ring round relatives to try and raise funds from relative whilst your loved one waits in the emergency room. If you have pets think about how much vets charge then multiply it up.

^You actually, genuinely think Emergency Departments are trying to 'get rid of people' by 'palming them off'?

Have you heard the word 'litigation'?^

What other explanation is there for someone misdiagnosing so completely? Other than incompetence. I think they know that if it is not a matter of life and death, people will not litigate, or it wouldn't be traceable to them (eg. child ends up with ear issues in 5 years, who is going to remember this A & E visit and hound down the doc). They aren't stupid, no. Will the OP litigate if she goes to the fracture clinic and they say, actually it needs a cast? Would she even get anywhere if she did?

Op I haven't read through the thread. For this type of injury you would normally be followed up at a fracture clinic or have an ortho phone call. The nurse that saw you initially may have been an enp and well qualified to give you information on how the fracture was treated. There's very few boxers fractures I wouldn't cast , and absolutely would have follow up. I think people assume in ED they will see a specialist Dr which is rarely the case!! Op I would advise that you go back to the minor injury unit and ask for a review. They can refer for a follow up appointment if this wasn't done in ED. I certainly would complain about your treatment in ED. Professionals can have different views on treatment but the way in which your daughter was treated is uncalled for.

My sister got no bloody treatment. She developed epilepsy after another illness. She was always complaining of pain but it was all epilepsy related apparently. Should my brother in law be grateful when she just didn't wake up one morning because she could have died earlier. She was in her 50's by the early mum never got the chance to have heard surgery because a her heart valve problems took so long to diagnose. B, which diagnosed she had to wait ages to see a surgeon.
In the meantime the local hospital missed at least one Tia and a full blown stroke.
So the bloody cost of heart surgery is irrelevant
The episode of the hospital with the stroke unit opened up old wounds. Wished she had never moved out if London because the stroke unit there was superb.

BTW my mum never. Heart

In that case why are terminal cancer patients given morphine and palliative care?

O and just looked up lung cancer and it said pain is a common symptom.

Lake, I am sorry about what happened to your relatives. The point I was trying to make is that making a diagnosis is complicated, lots of conditions cause the same symptoms and signs

The other point is that healthcare is very expensive. If you can't pay, the a busy, stressed out, delay ridden, misdiagnosis ridden NHS is better than no Healthcare at all.

Going back to the original post, 5 hours to wait is not long if the diagnosis and treatment are sound especially in a free at point of delivery service. It is because it is free that you have delays and stressed out HCP may miss vital clues. If you can afford to pay these vast sums the outcomes are better. On average rich people live longer than poor people.

Lung cancer present with pain but the pain should then control with drugs so then the pain is no longer an issue. That is why morphine is used in palliative care, in terminal care as you put it.

Her pain wasn't under control though. She was on pain relief for neuropathic pain I believe but it wasn't enough. She used to regularly ring me and tell me how awful she felt.
As as result I just hate the idea that as it is free at the point if delivery that we should put up and shut up.
I accept we are lucky not to have to pay each time we see a GP etc but as a hrt payer we pay shed loads into the pot for healthcare education etc etc.
We didn't complain in either case but it still hurts especially as the deaths were within 6 months of each other.
Of course we will never know if either life could have been extended much if things were different but sadly the NHS isn't perfect.

It is always better to get a second and if possible a third opinion, I say that from experience. My daughter at two days old (I) was told she had bleeding between her skull and her skin, we were already being held in the hospital by social services, had we not been given a second opinion by an expert in another hospital (there was no bleeding) I'd have had my baby taken. Same thing regarding second opinions with my second child, heart condition, two doctors checked her out and didn't know what was wrong, we waited about 5 hours while she laying practically dying for another doctor to figure it out, I will never complain about waiting times etc as I would rather wait and know for a fact what is wrong than risk getting home and the diagnosis he wrong. I've been through too much as have others, and waiting for healthcare that you don't have to stress about paying for with some amazing staff, is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Hoping your daughter makes a speedy recovery.