To feel like women can't genuinely win?

[Dumbo412]

Having had a discussion recently that ended with DH telling me that unless both of us were earning a decent wage, we would never really have the lifestyle that I want.

Nothing drastic comes to mind for me. I'd like to buy a 3 bed house one day. I'd like another child and would love a holiday every few years.

Not spectacular, but nice enough life I think.

He thinks his 50k a year income isnt enough, and that the 8k I make a year isn't enough to make a difference. Instead of arguing the point that for a family of 3 this should be more than enough I occupy myself with finding a new job.

This new job is £20k per year. I've been offered it and they'd like me to start Monday if I can.

Now it's not really ok for me to accept this role, as i "have to think about the good of the family"

Wrap around childcare doesn't really work as every other week i wouldn't be getting home until 7pm. And H can't guarantee he will be home and able to collect DD.

It just feels like I can't win.

Do all women feel this way? Like they need to be home to deal with the children? But also have to take on a certain responsibility for earning a "decent" amount?

Maybe I'm being precious, but I just feel it's a bit unfair.

I can't make much more than 8k a year and be there for school drop off/pick up. Be there on school hols plus have the house in order.

Tell me ladies, is this normal?

dumbo, I'm shocked by how much this comes up on Mn. I don't come across it in RL, I'll be honest. I don't have any SAHM friends and I've lived in five countries on three continents though two male friends are currently SAHPs, though. I don't know any woman who feels a moment's guilt about working. Frankly, I don't know why anyone who wasn't in an abusive relationship/ who didn't suffer from self-esteem issues puts up with this kind of thing, if they want to work. A relationship that operates this way is dysfunctional, and the women in them deserve better.

That's toast- sorry it's a 3 bed house. We don't own it, just rent.
3 bed house, 3 toilets, office. Live in a cheapish area but live on a nicer new estate which is expensive for the area, but that's his choice 100%

I'm part time and do almost all the housework, food shopping, stuff with the kids etc. The trouble is, although this was fine because dh is more ambitious than me and I was glad to step off the career ladder for a while, my part time is increasing atm but I'm still doing all of the home stuff. Partly because he still works much more hours than me, but partly because the roles are now ingrained.
I have no particular desire to go back full time, certainly for a few years until dc2 is in secondary school, and dh doesn't really want me to either because he knows it would make for a more chaotic home life. His job is also really stressful and mine isn't. But the juggling is beginning to piss me off because when you're in charge of all the home stuff (including the thinking about everything), you never get a break from that. Ever.

I grew up with this tug of war, from a mum who was the ... A Womans place is pleasing her husband and being at home for the children camp and my sister is. The working, career girl, who openly regards sahm mums as lazy, benefit scroungers who have wasted a perfectly good education.

Tbh though I am more in my mums camp, but often find I am judging myself by my sisters standards and have to remind myself that I am a perfectly good example of one choice for women,I can't be an example of all of them.

I understand where you're coming from Dumbo. I am in a similar situation with Dh. Don't know what the answers are. If anyone finds them, please let me know. I have a good science degree and many years experience with reputable organisations. Have 3 dc and stayed at home as the main carer. Dh's career is very good and a decent salary. Mine is currently rubbish, although I am doing some self-employed work, although I couldn't keep myself on the money I currently get. We always discuss argue about what we should do next. I have loved being with the dc, but would probably not encourage my own daughters to do what I have done with hindsight.

Where is his money going? Do you have equal access and equal say? You should if he feels it's appropriate to curtail your earning potential for 'the good of the family'. Not earning now is not just the loss of that potential income now, but it adds up as an increment for every year you're not employed. So if you started on 20K now, you might be on 30K in five years (or hey, 70K+). If you don't start work for five years, you'll be on the entry salary then.

50K seems a lot for him to earn, I'm interested in where that goes though.

The situation has made me rethink, is it the norm that women are just expected to be told, don't expect anything from life, until you can pay 50% of it, but sorry, you can't possibly pay for it, because you have to look after my children.

Not the norm for me at all. That example sounds financially abusive.

I have never bought into the whole buying a house thing, people saying its throwing away money,but my poor father is still paying his mortgage and he's 70 ! He has stressed over paying it all his life, and when something goes wrong, he has to find the money to repair it. I'm happy to pay for the privilege of knowing,when my boiler breaks down, I can call a number and its fixed straightaway without my worrying if I can afford it.

I think part time work is a total con. As people have said, you end up doing all or most of the housework, responsible for everything to do with kids, responsible for all household admin and such. DH can concentrate on work and is not expected to adjust his plans, as you're there to do it all.
At the same time, unless you have job where you can drop your stuff and go, you are still expected to do basically the same job for less money. And can forget about career and promotions, as people think that as you've chosen the mummy-track, you're no longer interested in that anyway. Or maybe that's just my workplace.

"All that wraparound care and rushing around barely makes it worth it.
I went back part-time on an OK salary but even at 3 days a week it was rush rush rush and two drops offs and pick ups.
I do agree that for women/Mums it's like we've been sold a pup.
You spend all your life jumping through hoops only to be left - literally, holding the baby.
Not much changes for your DH, their lives sail on as usual.
But we're left wondering WTF next? How to get our lives back on track, earn a decent wage, have a 'career', raise happy kids, keep a good home etc.
Seems like it's almost impossible."

Gosh hutchblue, I couldn't disagree more - this is definitely not a universal experience, as I hope this thread will show you.
Plenty has changed for my DH since we had children - he does tons with the kids, not just because I work and he has to, but because he wants to.

I work because I enjoy it - it's hard to juggle everything (for both of us - we have regular discussions about who is dropping off and picking up on various days, esp as DH works away 2 days a week and those days tend to change week to week) but I wouldn't choose to be at home full time because I like my job and I like going into work and chatting to colleagues/learning new stuff/having a sense of purpose and 'self' outside of being a mum. Some people want to be at home full time and that's absolutely a valid choice for those who want to do that, but if you want to work then I don't see why that should be considered impossible. There is no reason why a man should be less able to go to his boss and say 'I need to leave on time on Tuesdays and Fridays to pick my children up from childcare' than a woman. And plenty of women have to do this.

My dh does school (club) drop off/pick ups and takes more sick days to look after ill kids and makes use of flexible working. He seems to be making use of his company's family friendly conditions. If more men did this then perhaps life would be easier for the women in their life and in their company.

He is in a professional role. Takes courage I suppose. And that is something some men don't have.

I earn a decent wage. Just shy of his wage. My career has progressed because of his support and encouragement.

He has a wife who will never resent him. My children most certainly don't hate either of us.

I will say this though - I think a large part of my desire to work full time my whole life, health willing, is seeing my Mum depressed at home. For years. She returned to work when I was in my teens and blossomed.

YANBU

Although my dh isn't as arsey.

I gave my career up to look after my two youngest dc while dh built his our buisness up.

Was regularly thrown the 'you go to work and I'll stay home then' till I said 'fuck yeah - looking forward to it!'

I've been very very lucky to be in the position to be in the beginning stages of starting my own buisness up.

Fuck knows what I would have done if I wouldn't have been able to do that.

Also fuck knows what's going to happen when both buisness are up and running cos it won't be me staying at home if a kids ill.

I have currently just gone back to full time hours doing 2 jobs ( had been part time for many years since the kids were small) and it is relentless juggling 2 jobs ( one of which entails shift work including night shifts), 4 kids, a dog and all the usual husehold stuff. I do feel a certain pressure to earn more although dh will always be the higher earner. We have 4 teenagers and they just seem to cost so much.
Even though we both work full time , I am still the one texting the kids all the time from work to check they are ok, worrying about them, juggling working days if they have hospital appointments/ dental appointments or if they are ill/ desperately trying to plan meals on the drive home from work then stopping on my way home to do shopping etc, the grind is neer ending. Dh is very good, he does do a lot at weekends ( when I am often doing my shift work job), I guess it's just that my work is just more flexible than his.

dumbo do you have another career options for earning that much that don't involve DH doingnsoke childcare? If not, you need to ask your DH to talk to his company about more flexibility. If he genuinely can't get it, you both have to accept and be happy with what you've got for now.

OP you have a DH problem.

It is not normal or OK for him to whine about you not earning enough and then scupper your chances of earning more because you have to think of the good of the family.

He is the one who isn't thinking of the good of the family.

As someone said upthread that is financial abuse.

Well we are in a similar position to you financially. Husband earns 45k I'm part time earning 12k but do all the kids drop offs and pick ups.

I don't know why you can't afford the lifestyle that you want. We have that lifestyle only maybe in a less nice area.

I think your husband is the problem here. He should be supportive if you want to earn more by working full time. If he wants you to work part time to care for the children then he shouldn't get to control all the money.

Previous poster mentioned feeling guilty about going to work. I do not feel guilty in the least about going back to work full time but when other women refer to this guilt, I often wonder if there is something wrong with me that I don't feel this 'guilt'. I think nursery is fantastic and provides a lot of stimulation that I wouldn't be able to give him at home. I actually think I would get depression if I was a SAHM. And sometimes on this site I often wonder whether there is a link between being a SAHM and depression/anxiety as alot of posters who are SAHM seem to be suffering with it and I wonder if they had jobs and worked out of the house, if they would still be depressed? Just a thought and clearly nothign to do with this thread.

Incidentally to the PP who talked about Men not having the same 'guilt' etc. Well, my DH does more than his share when he is home from work. And he has to go away this year for a while and he is devastated and he is going to miss the DC like crazy. But equally he wouldnt want to be a SAHD but when the kids are in school we would both like to look into working 4 days a week if possible.

I agree with that, my DH certainly feels guilty about not spending time with the kids when he's travelling or working weekends. I don't think our kids hate us and I think they need you all the way through their lives so work life balance is the key for both parents.