To feel like women can't genuinely win?

[Dumbo412]

Having had a discussion recently that ended with DH telling me that unless both of us were earning a decent wage, we would never really have the lifestyle that I want.

Nothing drastic comes to mind for me. I'd like to buy a 3 bed house one day. I'd like another child and would love a holiday every few years.

Not spectacular, but nice enough life I think.

He thinks his 50k a year income isnt enough, and that the 8k I make a year isn't enough to make a difference. Instead of arguing the point that for a family of 3 this should be more than enough I occupy myself with finding a new job.

This new job is £20k per year. I've been offered it and they'd like me to start Monday if I can.

Now it's not really ok for me to accept this role, as i "have to think about the good of the family"

Wrap around childcare doesn't really work as every other week i wouldn't be getting home until 7pm. And H can't guarantee he will be home and able to collect DD.

It just feels like I can't win.

Do all women feel this way? Like they need to be home to deal with the children? But also have to take on a certain responsibility for earning a "decent" amount?

Maybe I'm being precious, but I just feel it's a bit unfair.

I can't make much more than 8k a year and be there for school drop off/pick up. Be there on school hols plus have the house in order.

Tell me ladies, is this normal?

No I don't feel that way. I work full time, earn a very nice salary and we share childcare obligations with DH (and childminder). I'm pretty sure our children do not hate either of us. People can judge away if they wish.

I think a lot of women just 'accept' that the higher-earning husband is 'entitled' to work late every night, roll home long after nursery/childminder/after school club kicking out time and generally insist that the wife can only work if they can also pick up all the childcare. This is ridiculous, and very unfair. If you want a career, you should have one. If your husband's job is genuinely so demanding that he cannot leave on time a couple of evenings a week to pick up the children then together you need to come up with an appropriate childcare solution - a nanny? Au pair? The default position shouldn't be that the woman has to give up work or work a low paid job in order to pick up the slack unless that is what she really really wants. For me, I enjoy working and I want to have a good job that is reasonably well paid (not megabucks, but a respectable professional salary) and interesting, and challenging. For me to do that, my DH understands and accepts that he has to take responsibility for a certain number of drop-offs and pick-ups each week. That's part of being a father.

YADNBU. It feels like now most of us are expected to work full time AND do all the household chores and take responsibility for day to day parenting. Frankly, our grandmothers had it better.

In the ideal world my husband and I would both work part time, take on equal amount of house hold chores and parental responsibilities, and this way there would be no need to outsource childcare!

I don't have any guilt about being the breadwinner.

How can you bemoan the judgement when you were the one judging?

I don't if I hadn't had kids I'd be any further up the career ladder. I never wanted loads of responsibility and stress and I'd have found some other reason for working part-time.

Men think they can get away with 'I can't guarantee' nonsense. That doesn't fly in this house. If I have to travel for work, work late or pull extra hours, that's a joint responsibility. Because my job, and the money it brings in, are important. We work out childcare and cover (with no family support) so that I don't get sidelined.

For example in two weeks I have to travel for three days with speaking engagements. He has emailed a babysitter we use.

The more men have to ask their employers for time or flexibility, the less the wage gap will be. It only works because men expect less of themselves than of women.

I don't see why you're universalising this. Your specific DH appears to have flown in from 1950 and to be uncommitted to parenting his own kid/sIf he's keen for you to take this job, then he needs to factor flexibility into his working life in order for both of you to work and parent. We don't have family help, and both have demanding professional jobs beyond 9-5, so it takes organisation, mutual goodwill and flexibility from us both to juggle DS and work, especially when he's ill or in holidays.

I get that some women do feel an expectation to be SAHMs, but I never see why, frankly. I didn't do four degrees and work hard to get where I am to jack it in because I had a child. But then it had never occurred to me, or to DH that parenting, and making childcare work, is my problem because I have a vagina. Our child is not just my issue.

OP, do you want the job?

Amen, MrsTerry.

What I wasn't judging at all. You've (deliberately) misinterpreted what I've said. I am a working parent. I do intend to go back once DC2 is around 2. I was simply saying that, in my own experience, it seems women can't have it all because they are judged or they have guilt or their kids miss them etc. Fathers don't suffer this.

I'd only judge a working parent if their children weren't being properly cared for as a result. And I don't for a second believe that using fathers, nurseries, childminders etc is not giving them proper care. I mean plonked in front of an iPad while mum and dad work all evening. I also know people like that.

Go back full time once DC2 is 2, I mean. I work part time just now.

And amen, emsy.

If I hear one more time on here that childcare costs seem to be magically subtracted from the mother's salary alone, so it's 'not worth' her working, I will chew the walls.

My first thought is that he's kind of right...you can't afford the better lifestyle you want without more money. But there is no easy answer to that.

YANBU at all, OP. I earn practically the same as my H and yet my contribution is still utterly minimised by him.

Oh, and the care of the DC is my realm (in his eyes, he's amazing for doing the afternoon school run even though I'm working at that time and he isn't). Patriarchy sucks chez moi.

It sounds as though he said that to get you off his back, assuming you wouldn't go out and find a 20k job. Now you have he is not prepared to step up and help out as he didn't have a problem with your lifestyle in the first place.

Nope not everyone feels like this.
I certainly don't!

Your DH is using the fact you aren't earning as much as an excuse as to why you can't have what you want (our combined wage is lower than yours, by a little bit. We have two dcs, a 3bed house and a Hols every year so really it IS achievable with what you earn).
It's a stick he using to beat you up with .

But when it comes to reality and you might actually work FULL TIME with all its issues, then he isn't there and is using the other stick to beat you up with - the one that says a mum is reposnible for the smooth running of the family, never fathers.

I would really have a frank chat with him and tell him that there are just two options. Either he is stepping up re you working and is doing his share of the childcare and stops moaning. Or he is sorting finances with youmto get the 'lifestyle' you want.

I'm really saddened to read that there are so many in the same position.

I'm shocked by DHs attitude. I started looking for a better role for more money, but as I was applying for roles, I realised I really wanted to be back in a professional environment, that I've missed having a bit of a career. Deflated by this obstacle.

I will give him his dues, he can't exactly leave early because his job is demanding and he has to be the first and last to leave the workplace. So I understand his inability to be flexible, but I didn't expect to hear how I don't contribute financially.

Aside from the point of this post, without my continued support, sorting his job applications, putting him into various training programmes etc, he would not have the good employment prospects he has which makes this even worse in my eyes!

Our lifestyle isn't anything other than what we had both discussed as our aim. Our rent is £1000 a month so not a really expensive area.

He does see holidays as excess, all I want is a few days at the seaside!

It's mad if we are expected to take on all household and child rearing duties, but also make a hefty financial contribution. It makes me seriously worry about what happens when DD doesn't need me?

Do I get put on a shelf? By this point won't it be near on impossible to try and gain some sort of professional career?

I've spent a long time in a naive place about thIs subject, and now I'm realising the real life implications.

Then he needs to find another job, if he genuinely can't make this one flexible enough to parent his child or children. Or to figure out flexible childcare.

Knofegrinder- I have universalised this, because until now I've read about this happening. I didn't for one second believe that it happened that often.
I thought it was down to women who married complete douchebags who thought this way.
The situation has made me rethink, is it the norm that women are just expected to be told, don't expect anything from life, until you can pay 50% of it, but sorry, you can't possibly pay for it, because you have to look after my children.

I think you''ve got a couple of issues going on OP. One is what is happening to the money currently? It sounds like you have one child, a small house and no holidays, but a combined income of £58k. But it sounds like you can't discuss the spending with dh. So is he keeping 'his money' for his own expenditure? He thinks there isn't enough money, but is throwing up barriers to you earning considerably more. Is he using money to try and control you?

Hutch, only if you allow it. I don't. Neither of us considered for a moment that I would consider not working after I had our son. Neither of thinks that juggling childcare and work is a woman's problem.

And surely no woman would give up a valued career in case someone was judging them for not being a SAHM? Cultural expectations are there to be resisted.

Actually I think it can be just as bad when both parents try to share the childcare and housework and build careers. Especially if you're in a situation like me and DH where we don't have any support close by (we're both from abroad) and when you're both on average salaries. Almost impossible to do anything else other than rush from A to B and back and say goodbye to any hope for promotion because both of you are having to regularly take time off for childcare and don't have as much flexibility as others. Also difficult to take any extra training due to costs and childcare.

I still think that 1k a month for a 2 bed place is expensive but with your income you should be able to have the lifestyle you've described.

I gave up my career because I wanted something else more - to be at home with the kids. And before people jump on me, that's my preference. And I am in a lucky position to be able to choose.

I want a career, I also want to be at home full time. But you can't have both of those. Part time work should be middle ground, and we as a family chose it as we think it'll be best in the long run. But it's not what I want. I want both, but can't have both!

Sara- I'm not sure how to describe him with money. I don't want to be unkind about him, but to use an example, if we were to go out for dinner with a couple who we know, he would pay the bill for everyone.

We are doing ok, but not ok enough for him to think a few days at the seaside are ok. He wants to own a house before then.

He's not particularly controlling. Just very careful in some respects, then not in others!