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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask a question of th grammar school supporters on here?

284 replies

BertrandRussell · 15/03/2017 10:37

If selective education is so effective, why don't wholly selective areas get significantly better GCSE results than wholly comprehensive ones?

OP posts:
Goldnick · 15/03/2017 19:28

Lincs is not wholly selective. Only 14 GS and one school with a grammar stream, and LSST which is selective by the back door. Most people don't live near a grammar. If you are outside of a grammar town, very few sit 11+, other schools are all comprehensive and, in my own anecdotal view, do not suffer from a lack of high achievers.

bigmack · 15/03/2017 19:29

The NI comparison is interesting as Irish children who are taught in English schools have higher attainment than white British children according to government data.

So how does that statistic work in NI where part of the population identify as British and part as Irish?

noblegiraffe · 15/03/2017 19:31

I don't see any others going wah wah wah about disadvantaged kids getting extra support, which is, as far as I can see, a pretty indefensible position.

Headofthehive55 · 15/03/2017 19:32

My child was not put in a cupboard but told to stand in the corridor if she insisted on trying to do work. She was disturbing the film, happy feet.
Just a normal lesson. We made a list of twenty five films she had half watched within a period of about a month. I went to school to complain. The tutor told the class that there couldn't be anymore films in classes because hive had been into school to complain!

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 15/03/2017 19:33

When my ds was very little he was incredibly jealous of a classmate who was in a wheelchair..............

OP posts:
PlayOnWurtz · 15/03/2017 19:34

But I'm not going wah wah wah about them getting extra support. Im saying my child got NONE

noblegiraffe · 15/03/2017 19:34

Head that doesn't appear to be because disadvantaged kids were hogging all the resources, but simply shit teaching. I said that every child had the right to go into a classroom and be taught by a teacher, which clearly wasn't happening there for anyone.

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 15/03/2017 19:35

Name the school. Let's have a look at their OFSTED.

OP posts:
PlayOnWurtz · 15/03/2017 19:35

Funnily enough their ofsted report made comment about them failing bright pupils so...

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 15/03/2017 19:36

Because it sounds like a crap school. Bizarre to blame the extra help being given to disadvantaged kids for the school being crap.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 15/03/2017 19:37

I asked you before, did they not go in a classroom and be taught by a teacher? Were their books not marked? If they spent 7 years watching Happy Feet then that's obviously an issue.

PlayOnWurtz · 15/03/2017 19:37

It's a school full of disadvantaged kids though

Headofthehive55 · 15/03/2017 19:42

That's the thing noble. Disadvantage takes many different forms. You wouldn't believe the amount of times I have informed teachers that DD3 has difficulty hearing, particularly one side. It is usually completely ignored and she's sat at the back.
Or DD2, who has slight brain impairment from birth. id say that was a disadvantage but I don't think it was ever classed as such!

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 15/03/2017 19:45

Play- why are you blaming extra help for disadvantaged kids for the school being crap? The disadvantaged children would have suffered a lot more than yours by watching 25 films in a month...........

OP posts:
PlayOnWurtz · 15/03/2017 19:48

You're mixing me up with another poster.

Headofthehive55 · 15/03/2017 19:48

No I'm not prepared to name the school as it can be outing.

I just wanted to point out some if us have had poor experience of the comp system at times. It's a system I did believe in, but in recent years I've found it wanting. I agree more money would be helpful.

noblegiraffe · 15/03/2017 19:52

You wouldn't believe the amount of times I have informed teachers that DD3 has difficulty hearing, particularly one side. It is usually completely ignored and she's sat at the back.

You'll be pleased to know that I make sure the three children I teach with hearing impairment are all sat at the front. No doubt Play would complain that they get the best seats, closest to the teacher Hmm

It's more likely incompetence than teachers deliberately sitting your DD at the back though. I'm a really experienced teacher and know to double check when redoing seating plans. It's much easier now that it's all on SIMs tbf.

Sixisthemagicnumber · 15/03/2017 19:58

The happy kids film thing just reminded me of the time the teacher called me into school in year 1 because my son didn't want to do dress up. The class did dress up and play house every afternoon for 2 hours and my son refused saying he wanted to read or do some maths. The teacher wanted me to make my son comply with the dressing up and house playing. I didn't see why he couldn't sit and read or have a maths worksheet. But apparently that level of differentiation was too much even at year 1 stage. Letting him read quietly to himself or do a few maths sheets wouldn't have impacted on the education of struggling children. He wouldn't have been taking anything away from any disadvantaged child. But he didn't fit the mould that the teacher had created and that was a problem.

Headofthehive55 · 15/03/2017 19:59

Yes you're right I think it is incompetence. Unfortunately there is quite a bit of it about! Not all teachers differentiate well, for those with disadvantage and those who need a bit more stretch. Unfortunately teachers often seem to associate disadvantage with income and it can be broader than that.

Headofthehive55 · 15/03/2017 20:01

six not just me then! I have sometimes wondered if I expect too much.

noblegiraffe · 15/03/2017 20:01

Unfortunately teachers often seem to associate disadvantage with income

I don't think that's true, the label 'disadvangaged children' is used specifically for PP/FSM kids, but children with SEN have their own, separate support system.

noblegiraffe · 15/03/2017 20:04

The class did dress up and play house every afternoon for 2 hours

If it was simply a free-for-all for 2 hours a day then that's not great on the part of the teacher. If you were simply dismissing a carefully planned educational activity because you didn't personally approve of the value of the activity then that's something else (I don't see why my kid should have to do drama/PE/music/PSHE/whatever because they'd rather do maths, sort of scenario).

Sixisthemagicnumber · 15/03/2017 20:06

To add: it's definitely down to teacher incompetence rather than an incompetent system Overall. But for some of us it does make us look for alternatives ways of having our children educated and a system that we think might better meet our children's needs.

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 15/03/2017 20:06

"The teacher wanted me to make my son comply with the dressing up and house playing. I didn't see why he couldn't sit and read or have a maths worksheet. But apparently that level of differentiation was too much even at year 1 stage."

That's not differentiation. Playing is a very important part of learning and socialization.

OP posts:
Ollycat · 15/03/2017 20:08

Today 17:36 BertrandRussell

*"Grammar school doesn't = no difficult pupils - I think that's a common misconception."

Oh, it does mostly!*

I disagree- I have 2 children in grammar and I work in a comprehensive so I do have experience of both.

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