To wonder what Teresa May's plans for secondary moderns are

[Neverthelessshepersisted]

That's it really.
I am a bit disappointed with her tbh.

Great replies.

I do have sympathy for individual parents like the ones on this thread and would not condemn them.

At our primary we had a full time support professional who would take the disruptive children out of class and work with them leaving it free to operate smoothly.

They were not able to replace him when he left because of the funding cuts......

My Dc are in a comp that is due to lose nearly a thousand pounds per pupil in the new rip up. It is in a non-leafy S London area, has a high FSM intake etc. It does really well by ALL its pupils. Kids from very challenging backgrounds whose parents really wouldn't give a toss (I know them from primary) and certainly wouldn't sign them up for grammar, do well in top sets.

I am furious that May will trash the chances of kids in successful comps like this, that really do enable all kids to fulfill their potential (that's what social mobility is, surely), while constructing segregated little greenhouses for the kids of parents who can and will work the system.

I believe in academic excellence. I have top set grammar ability kids, they are taught in sets alongside their academic peers. Iadore : that's what a comp does.

Maybe the dc in sec modern are just as bright Nobel

Then isn't that a failure of the 11+? It's supposed to objectively pick out the bright kids.

We know it doesn't though, the 11+ is more likely to pick out well-off kids, and the latest test has also turned out to be racist.

IAdore What about the August born boy who really is all round clever but needs another 6 months, beyond the random 11+ day to develop? Should the nature and pace of his education be determined on that one day?

What if your child has an off day, or misunderstands some questions, or under stress misjudged the time left, will you be happy for her to be in the non grammar?

It's mad isn't it?

I do get that politics works both ways i.e. Some bad teachers might be defended out of political principle and others might have low expectations.

I think also that I would feel differently if we lived in central Bradford (worst performing LEA).

God I am so New Labour.......

Your comps maybe but not the ones round me this is what concerns me and they have been awful for a very very long time. When do you draw line under this and say enough? The dc in your school may all be working to potential but not in ours

I see the 11+ selecting dc who learn in the a certain way, I see this difference in my brain and dd brain. She can be taught in regular way and get it, for example some of things I need to learn in a different way that's all. I think that is what sec moderns need to look at. Dc can enter grammar at different ages

Soulaccount the system does acknowledge that dcs can have an off day.......the test is age corrected, so an August born effectively has a lower pass mark than a September born......

I completely accept that the system has it's failures but people are making ill- informed assumptions on here.

Soul this is probably why child's academic record should perhaps be taken into account along side test. With more grammars, with enforced help within primary to make sure all pupils with ability get the chance, and a different approach to those who struggle in certain subjects I don't see why all needs cannot be catered for. Our local comps are rubbish so I would be nervous sending her to one

I adore,

I think you are generalising how you see yourself and imagining 80% of the population as being like you.

I get that you want to celebrate your daughter's potential/achievements though x

^^OH well it's obviously already taken into account then

When do you draw line under this and say enough? The dc in your school may all be working to potential but not in ours

How will a grammar school help that? It will only make those schools worse, to remove the top 10% (as proposed by the Tories). That leaves 90% of kids in that area worse off than before.

What is needed in areas with bad comps is investment in the comps. However given the massive cuts to school funding, and the money being given to new grammars, it's clear that Theresa May doesn't give a shit about the majority and only cares about her vanity project.

"But it suits my bright and lazy ds - the school he would have gone to if he hadnt done the test has 50% A-C and told us quite openly they spent year 7 going over the basics eg repeating yr6. "

God, how many bloody times! It does this because it is not a comprehensive school! And 50% A to C is pretty bloody good for a school without the top 25% and with the vast majority of disadvantaged children, poor children, children with SEN.............

None of these comments about the test answer my OP.

Iadore I have written to my MP, Greening et al, explaining why I want extra money found for all schools and all schools to be at a standard.

Your tactic is to support schools that take resources away from schools as a whole and only improve chances for the top 10%. You are saying, in effect, that the ones who don't make the grammar cut will be left to stew in your bad local schools.

I think in the end it makes a difference to all of us that everyone is educated.

I do see there are issues in areas of long term neglect, some coastal / rural areas. I have some experience of this. I think they need specific initiatives and investment to give young people and families realistic aspiration, and a vision of a future. Not a blanket 'bring back grammars' poiicy that destabilises education across the whole country.

Why is the PM flying in the teeth of almost the entire teaching profession? And announcing this before the results of the green paper consultation are out? Is she a dictator?

"What is needed in areas with bad comps is investment in the comps"

I agree, and if TM did this I would support her and be more open to what the Tories say generally.

interesting op how so. As someone who massively struggled at maths and wasted hours not engaging with it at all too then leave school with fail in it I know along with fellow maths fails I needed a different approach in learning it. I would never have been like dd seeing how her brain works. But I could have got a c with the right help. But that's nothing to do with having pupils like dd in my class or school with me. It wss down to how I was taught maths.

"I completely accept that the system has it's failures but people are making ill- informed assumptions on here."

Yes, they bloody are. Calling Kent High schools comprehensives, for a start........

Assumption there that in 30+ years our comps have had no investment I am afraid it's not that simple to box up the problems we have. We are not in deprived area either far from it.

B &R it is a comprehensive we do not live in a selective area. I am sorry i cant agree that 50% A-C is acceptable. Half the 16 yo's leaving that school will be to all intents and purposes unemployable- how is that ok ?

It isn't a matter of a few points: one of my (especially high performing) summer born DC simply wouldn't have been mature, confident enough or up for a competitive test aged 10. There are selective schools within 45mins of where I live and there was intensive tutoring. My DC (also with medical issues) would not have coped. But is now approaching GCSEs with a predicted constellation of A*s.

Selection is selection. However much adjustment, prediction by primary schools (what a minefield THAT would be...causes terrible issues with prejudice in Germany, for example ), whatever you do, there will be kids left in the wrong side of the divide.

Are you (grammar supporters) reconciled to that being your child?

Soul our bad comps have been that way for a very long time. I think it's disgraceful and new approach needed. If don't want any pupils anywhere to.... Stew.... In bad schools in fact I would like all failed pupils to be given apologies by the state for failing them and compensation! I think the way some posters talk about pupils like me who would have failed 11+ as write offs is awful!! As I said you may have Shakespeare in your sec modern because not good at maths. Pupils who have different learning needs should have those needs met. Forget about grammar those pupils learn in different way. Concentrate on on the ones who need other tactics and help.

Iadore, what are the problems in your area then? I make know assumptions about your area, but I know of some causes of under achievement in some areas as I have lived / worked there.

If comps can work (and they can and do, in my deprived area) why don't they in yours?

You mean am I reconciled to schools that are not grammar not helping other dc to forfill potential?