To wonder what Teresa May's plans for secondary moderns are

[Neverthelessshepersisted]

That's it really.
I am a bit disappointed with her tbh.

[IadoreEfteling]

I think we need to shed the 1950 hangover approach to grammars, everything changed, job market etc. University so expensive now, computer doing other jobs, going to uni and getting certain job isn't the be all and end all anymore . I think it keeps the myth going if people see things in those terms.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

People are also forgetting about the continued forcing of schools to turn in to academies.

with the top ten% of pupils gone, a host of schools will fall in to the failing category and be swapped in to academy chains.

[The80sweregreat]

Its just playing politics with education - all parties do it and few have any one in their party who has a huge amount of knowledge first hand of how it works in the real world.
Why not recruit ex head teachers or school teachers to front a focus group or something to advise them - to put forward ideas and innovations, to suggest another way forwards? People who really know what its like on the front line so to speak, who know where the money should be going and not where the government think it should be going towards? How to improve every single school and not just a few hundred in order to score points? it will never happen of course.

[SoulAccount]

"I used to teach in a secondary modern. It was excellent."

I have no doubt excellent modern / high / secondary modern schools exist. With good teaching. The question is why on earth do they need to teach children in a seperate segregated building based on a test on one day when they are 10? And then remained confined in the range of educational opportunity deemed appropriate?

[IadoreEfteling]

I guess for me I would like dd go to grammars for a few break. Since reception she and her pals have been used as tools to control the poorly behaved pupils in her class. Ie sat next to them. I'd like her to go to school where she can sit with her friends and not have to deal with with that.

[BertrandRussell]

"And you end up with a self perpetuating system where parents who can afford it will pick an independent school even if they disapprove in principle because they can't rely on the schools in their area. Cf Diane Abbott."
Fascinating how Diane Abbot is always held up for opprobrium, while it's seen as perfectly fine for others to promote the secondary modern system even though they would never send their children to one!

[IadoreEfteling]

I think it's the holier than though attitude of politicians like Diane that's gets people's backs up. I agree with op that secondary modern need massive over haul. I think they need to address teaching in to totally different way for dc who struggle with maths for instance.

[OhGodWhatTheHellNow]

YY to the annual drama for places, we have an ex-private, now maintained school in the area with an entrance exam and every year all the local schools lose their bright pupils with the most involved parents. The place is a blight, and not even that good, just perceived to be (Their Estyn report ain't that great).
We joke about starting an entrance exam for our (demonstrably better) village school with falling rolls, as that seems to be the only attraction.

Hasn't it been shown that grammar schools pull down the overall results in an area, so actively disadvantaging those who don't get in? Thankfully I live in Wales.

[BertrandRussell]

"I think it's the holier than though attitude of politicians like Diane that's gets people's backs up."

Nah. She's just an easy target. The Tory supporters of the secondary modern system are infinitely worse.

[IadoreEfteling]

No I think it's the holier than though so called labour justice Warriors, down with in equality, down with selection down with privilege because you can pay for it.... Oh except for Blair and clegg who used dodgy selection top school, oh except for grammar educated corbyn whose son went grammars oh, except for dear dianne whose son is private.

[BertrandRussell]

Here ginger. Put in school name, click Pupil Population, and I think pupil premium numbers is the 6th one down

[BertrandRussell]

Yeah well, if you think ndividual's behaviour is more important than party policy........

As a point of information, Corbyn's wife's insistence on grammar school for heir son was a key factor in their divorce. So hardly fair to put him in the list.

[IadoreEfteling]

You mean because she felt he was sacrificing his own son on altar of principles. Is London a grammar area... Surely education should be sorted out by now? It reflects badly on party who holds itself up as champions of the poor and justice who then use the system just like everyone else.
I actually think a parents job is to get best for child, but if politician preaching to others it gets a little dicey

[HPFA]

Theresa May's plans for secondary moderns:

1. Deny that they exist. Insist that they are actually comprehensive although this is plainly illogical.
2. Wait a few years so that everyone is purely focussed on getting their kids into new grammars and has no energy to fight.
3. Plans? Why would I bother planning for the failures?

[BertrandRussell]

"You mean because she felt he was sacrificing his own son on altar of principles"

Jesus. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't!

[Stillwishihadabs]

There are a few myths and inaccuracies on this thread.

1. The Kent 11+ (which ds took and dd will) selects the top 25% not 10%.
   
2. if a child has an "off" day the head teacher can and do appeal the decision can be reversed
   
3. Every year some children who didnt pass do get in through the appeals system .
   
4. You can transfer in at 12+(year 8),13+ (year 9) and 16. Obviously once GCSEs are started it is difficult.
   
   I dont beleive the system is perfect. But it suits my bright and lazy ds - the school he would have gone to if he hadnt done the test has 50% A-C and told us quite openly they spent year 7 going over the basics eg repeating yr6. This is a lad who was at a level 6A at the start of yr6, in year 8 he is doing yr9/10 maths. Maybe some comprehensives could have catered for him, but not that one.

[noblegiraffe]

If your DS is in Kent then of course the school he would have gone to if he failed would have a lower pass rate and spend Y7 making sure children are secure in what they know. Because it's not a comp, but a secondary modern. The bright kids go elsewhere.

[IadoreEfteling]

Well it's the nature of the beast Bertrand if you put your self forward as social Warrior character.

I think we need to change the way some things are taught dc learn in different ways, if sec moderns aren't great why not look at the way those pupils are taught? Some pupils learn more visually or doing hands on, rather than classic way

[IadoreEfteling]

Maybe the dc in sec modern are just as bright Nobel but need teaching in the different way and have more problems? You may have Shakespeare in your sec modern because he just couldn't grasp maths.

[Stillwishihadabs]

Not in Kent, but boardering so maybe some "Kent effect".

[noblegiraffe]

Any school that parents make an effort to avoid will be worse than a school that parents make an effort to get into, because parents that care about education are really important to the educational success of their kids. Don't blame the schools, blame the system that creates them.