To think that complete learner drivers shouldn't be on very busy main roads unless with a proper instructor?

[Runny]

Driving to the supermarket earlier I managed to get stuck behind an obviously very new learner driver. Fine, they need to learn of course, but this woman was in a car with just L plates on the back and no sign to say the bloke in the passenger seat was a proper instructor. He didn't have the correct mirrors and therefore im assuming no dual controls either.

She pootled along the main 30mp road at about 20mph, continually juddering and occasionally speeding up. Then we reached the 40mph stretch where the slow pootling and juddering continued, until she saw a police car parked at a junction and briefly stopped dead. Then it was onto the roundabout where she sat for what seat like an age before finally turning left. She continued on to the next roundabout which is very busy, traffic lights etc. Finally she was in a different lane to me, I was going straight ahead and she was in the lane next to me to go right, except when the lights changed she was going the same way as me, and just cut straight across in front of me. Now I know people sometimes get in th wrong lane on an unfamiliar road, by there was no indication she just went straight across. How the hell I didn't hit her was a miracle. I don't think you should beep at learners, so I let it go but anyone else who cut me up like that would have got the horn and the finger!

Then we finally reach the small retail park. I go onto the supermarket and she is just sat there in the next lane, not sure where to go next. Obviously waiting for instruction, which wasn't forthcoming because the halfwit next to her wasn't even an instructor!

Actually any instructor worth their salt wouldn't have taken someone so inexperienced onto those roads. Mine kept me on small housing estates and side roads untitl he knew I was able to keep up with the other traffic.

She was lucky she didn't have an accident, and knowing those roads as I do, at a busier time of day she would have done!

If they have L plates on, professional or not, I forgive them any mistakes and give them room to think. I don't like drivers who express frustration at learners, save your rage for traffic!!! Is the delay ever really any more than a few seconds? A few minutes for a total disaster?

My DH taught me as we couldn't afford driving lessons. We went to industrial estates and got hold of the basics and he then made me drive everywhere that wasn't a motorway for 3 months! I had 3 hours with an instructor who put told me to book straight away and I passed first time. I was hyper aware that there were no dual controls and felt very responsible for driving that "loaded leathal weapon"-DH car. I saw 4 people today during a 10 mile journey who were using their phones when in traffic on a very busy motorway, not moving and holding up heavy rush hour traffic presumably to send a msg or whatever before moving off. I'm saving all my rage for those fuckers!

The first driving instructor I ever had took me on quiet roads but he'd steer for me and talk pervy to me at the same time! When I started with my new instructor who I had until I passed my test she couldn't believe I'd had previous lessons because this man had somehow made my driving worse! So 'qualified' doesn't mean better!

I think it's more dangerous for a very nervous erratic driver to be on busy roads in a car without dual controls than it is with them. An instructor braking for you and a panicked relative yelling "Brake!" while you frantically pump any pedal going are not necessarily likely to be equally safe!

Many driving instructors now don't have their car liveried, or one of those massive L signs on the roof - both my old driving instructor and DSs had cars with dual controls, but externally all you'd see was the L plate, no other markings' at all.

So just because it doesn't say 'Barry Chuckles Driving School' or whatever doesn't mean it's not a proper instructor.

And if it wasn't an instructor, well with lessons being £25 a time I can understand learners going out with friends or relatives to save money.

The reality is if her driving was that bad, an accident would have happened. It may have been her first time behind the wheel, she may have done loads of practice on quiet roads and her nerves got the better of her.

Everyone has to learn how to drive. No one however smug can instantly pass a driving test with no practice. A little empathy goes a long way...

As we live in a close where driving instructors daily bring their learners to try their umpteen points turns, I often remark to DH that if ever we win the lottery we will buy a field, tarmac it over, paint lines, add traffic lights and hire it out to learner drivers and their supervisors - rather like the little practice set ups schools had for cycling proficiency tests.
DH thinks i am joking ..... having heard one revved engine too many ... i am not!

The thing is the OP has no way of knowing that this was a completely new learner who hadn't already done the basics and mechanics on quiet back streets and car parks, could have been this learner's very first foray out into busier roads and was more nervous than normal. The lane change - it would have made no difference no matter who was sitting in the instructor's seat after the fact. The L plate, be that on an official driving school car or a normal car, is your signal to back the fuck off a bit, be a bit patient and allow for sudden unexpected lane changing or even stopping without warning.

In the USA, we don't even have L plates, some people put a 'student driver' sign in the window but it's not mandatory. Pro driving lessons aren't the norm except for maybe just two or three right before the test so it's usually mum or dad doing the teaching and learners are allowed on the freeways (motorways) because they believe in learners getting experience in every aspect of driving. Drivers Ed (theory) is a great idea too but while all those learners under 18 have to do it it's not required for the people who delay learning until later.

Have you only been driving 10 years OP?

I'm sure you'll get used to being more aware of other drivers in time. Most of us were all at the stage you were at way back when.

If I'd only been driving 10 yrs I really wouldn't be gobbing off about other people on a forum where an awful lot of people will have been driving for decades longer than you!

My very first driving lesson was at 5:30 on a Friday evening in the pitch black. We went to a housing estate then I drove home on busy, major roads.

Our kids both learnt to drive at 17. They drove on major and minor roads, in our car and in their instructor's car. When I took them out I was really shocked at the disregard, the impatience and the intolerance of some of the other road users. Some of them were downright dangerous.

When I'm a passenger and we see a learner I watch how other drivers are around them. Some of them are horrible and seem to have forgotten that they had to learn to drive too.

It's high time the industry got themselves up to date with simulator instruction. Learner drivers should learn in a properly controlled environment not on the roads. 20 years ago it wasn't too hard to find a car park to get the hang of the basics, I did it in a field early Sunday morning but now places like that are rare. Even outside of rush hour most of my local roads are overwhelming for a beginner so it would make so much sense to get it right in truely safe environment first but of course there would be too much lost revenue if the sensible option was taken. I live on a quiet road where we have an almost constant stream of learners and as well as being really annoying it's also dangerous. The assumption is that it is safe as it's quiet but that's not always the case. I strongly believe that if a learner can't control the car on the main road they shouldn't be let loose in a residential area either.
I'd hate to be learning now.

I was cut up on a mini roundabout today, it was my right of way, the dickhead panicked about where she was going on the roundabout and indicated to turn whilst on top of it, whist the guy on the car laughed. I had to hit the brakes sharpish.

I was the learner driver .... they weren't . They were probably a brilliant driver with ten years experience

Bikers have to do time on a car park or other off road area, learning the controls and manouvering and braking before being allowed on the road.

Then (on anything bigger than a 125) we have to be accompanied by trained instructors - not mum, dad or brother.

Then when we pass our tests we have to do 2 years on little bikes before being allowed on bigger ones.

When I am God car drivers will have to do the same.

The thing is, it IS inconsiderate of everyone to take a nervous or brand-new learner who hasn't mastered the gears etc out on main roads at rush hour.

There is nowhere I've ever been in the country that doesn't have some residential areas that aren't full of traffic even in rush hour.

When I learnt to drive (in London) I started on quiet residential roads and then started doing 'a little bit' on the main roads and graduated to the bigger roads and the short dual carriageway when I was more confident. Even sometimes to the point where the instructor would pick me up and drive us TO the starting point at the beginning. The other day I was behind a learner who was coming up over Red Post Hill towards Dulwich. In rush hour. It's a big hill with traffic lights at the top, and if the lights go red you then have to hill start and go quickly if you're first in the queue, which this learner was. They approached erratically and then stopped... and the lights went green and they stalled it. Luckily the car between me and it had the sense not to try and overtake. Several cars behind beeping frantically. The learner missed one round of lights and managed to get through the second one halfway through. Now imagine that you are on an hour's commute home and this was being repeated for a huge chunk of the drive. It's annoying, holds people up and is not fair on the other drivers having to wait over and over again and is also not fair on the learner who rightly or wrongly will be feeling the pressure from other drivers. And a lot of people will try and overtake unsafely, or shout abuse or beep.

I try not to be cross with learners and I'm definitely not abusive to them but sometimes I will overtake them if their slowness is making me late and it's safe to do so. If not I just drive well back.

I think the OP is getting some unfair stick about her own driving prowess. She didn't crash into the learner even when the learner made a serious error so obviously was giving them enough time and space; she followed them for long enough to see a reasonable snapshot of their driving so didn't perform a dangerous overtaking manoeuvre out of impatience, and she didn't hoot the horn or gesticulate when she was cut up. She just came onto an anonymous forum and vented a bit, and suggested that COMPLETE learners, not any and all learners at any stage before their test, should spend some time to learn basic control of the car before being taken onto busy roads.

TheCuriousOwl I get it's frustrating when you're just trying to get somewhere and I applaud the fact you appreciate and allow for their inexperience but again, inconsiderate or not, learners have to learn to deal with rush hour traffic at some point. Surely it's far better they do so with an experienced driver or instructor right there beside them than newly unleashed with a license with the ink still wet. Also people don't always have the option to take lessons at the quiet times of day, they may have work/school commitments or the instructor can't fit them in at another time.

We've had threads on here, posts on this very thread, where the people who live in quieter neighborhoods complain about the constant comings and goings of learners. They can't really win can they? Simulators and artificial courses and all that are great ideas but sooner or later learners will have to hit the real streets and they'll still make mistakes and hesitate no matter how good they were in theory and/or a controlled environment because that's part of the learning curve. Driving is an ongoing learning curve; rules change, roads change, the number of vehicles on the road changes, road conditions themselves change from place to place, our personal driving comfort zones change - if we move from city to country living for instance or we suddenly have to travel a lot after a couple of years tootling about with 30 miles of home home.

We also get thread after thread saying there is no good reason for people not to drive.

Whether intended or not it's attitudes like the ops that make me want to stop.

Why are you so much more important than the learner driver OP? Maybe it was the only time she could go out? Maybe she thought she was ready for a busy road but all the other brilliant drivers around her were making her nervous.

Tolerance and empathy are free. I suspect from your description you maybe added less than 5 minutes to your journey. Maybe if you're in that much of a rush you could try going to the supermarket at a quieter time of day.

Disclaimer: I don't have teens learning to drive and passed my test well over 20 years ago

echoesofempires I'd say it's more in fair for drivers who have already been through the process of learner to drive which required to patience of other road users not to display courtesy and understanding to those currently learning.

Sorry but I have seen more dangerous driving from people who were supposed to have passed a test and had several years experience than from learners