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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that complete learner drivers shouldn't be on very busy main roads unless with a proper instructor?

68 replies

Runny · 09/03/2017 13:15

Driving to the supermarket earlier I managed to get stuck behind an obviously very new learner driver. Fine, they need to learn of course, but this woman was in a car with just L plates on the back and no sign to say the bloke in the passenger seat was a proper instructor. He didn't have the correct mirrors and therefore im assuming no dual controls either.

She pootled along the main 30mp road at about 20mph, continually juddering and occasionally speeding up. Then we reached the 40mph stretch where the slow pootling and juddering continued, until she saw a police car parked at a junction and briefly stopped dead. Then it was onto the roundabout where she sat for what seat like an age before finally turning left. She continued on to the next roundabout which is very busy, traffic lights etc. Finally she was in a different lane to me, I was going straight ahead and she was in the lane next to me to go right, except when the lights changed she was going the same way as me, and just cut straight across in front of me. Now I know people sometimes get in th wrong lane on an unfamiliar road, by there was no indication she just went straight across. How the hell I didn't hit her was a miracle. I don't think you should beep at learners, so I let it go but anyone else who cut me up like that would have got the horn and the finger!

Then we finally reach the small retail park. I go onto the supermarket and she is just sat there in the next lane, not sure where to go next. Obviously waiting for instruction, which wasn't forthcoming because the halfwit next to her wasn't even an instructor!

Actually any instructor worth their salt wouldn't have taken someone so inexperienced onto those roads. Mine kept me on small housing estates and side roads untitl he knew I was able to keep up with the other traffic.

She was lucky she didn't have an accident, and knowing those roads as I do, at a busier time of day she would have done!

OP posts:
PUGaLUGS · 09/03/2017 14:15

I had L plates on my car for DS (he was also learning with an instructor). The amount of bloody times I have been cut up (just me driving) by bigger cars/white van drivers was unreal.

DS was also cut up numerous times as other drivers thought oh we had better get past. He was and is a bloody good driver, didn't take long at all to pass and would have passed sooner if he could have got a test.

Give L drivers some consideration.

Trifleorbust · 09/03/2017 14:26

It's not always avoidable, OP. As the experienced driver who noticed the L plates, it was your job to give plenty of room. Everyone makes mistakes!

Original poster
Runny · 09/03/2017 14:34

I think a lot of posters are just projecting here because their own DC's are learning to drive currently Wink

Yes, a learner doesn't have to go out with a qualified instructor, but surely it's the safest and most advisable way forward when you are a complete novice and are still unsure about the mechanics of it all. They have dual controls and extra mirrors and will step in if a newbie suddenly decides to cut someone up. That is monumentally shit driving and would more than likely be an instant fail on the test by the way.

OP posts:
DJBaggySmalls · 09/03/2017 14:39

There should be something like Compulsory Bike Training for cars IMO. With CBT, you have to pass 2 tests, the first is basic maneuvering and takes place off the roads.
You have to pass CBT before you can drive in traffic.

carefreeeee · 09/03/2017 14:42

If you had seen the erratic driving and the L plates, why didn't you anticipate the sudden lane changing at the roundabout? It would be just as much your fault for failing to anticipate based on your previous observations.

This reminds me of the thread where a poster was driving a behind an old lady who was doing 20 and claimed to have nearly crashed into them twice - and thought this was the old lady's fault! How close must you have to be to nearly hit someone if you are only doing 20? And to do it twice????

Speed limits are a maximum - if the driver is happier doing 20 than 30, there is absolutely nothing wrong or dangerous about that.

Ethylred · 09/03/2017 14:47

The L plates are there to warn other road users "I am learning". The other road users, and this includes you, OP, are meant to cut them some slack.

Justwantcookies · 09/03/2017 14:54

Of course she shouldn't have been learning on 30 and 40mph roads. She should have been out the way of the midday shoppers and on the dual carriageway. And fancy having L plates on a normal car to let people know you are a learner. How inconsiderate.

KindDogsTail · 09/03/2017 14:57

YANBU
I agree, I nearly killed someone crashing while trying to learn with a family member & no dual control.

SuperFlyHigh · 09/03/2017 15:00

She will have no idea she cut you up. Unless the person in the car with her told her.

I saw a friend of a friend with her 18 year old DD out in a car she's bought for DD (Mini Cooper) out on the roads, mixture of busy and not busy. When I saw them stationary mum said she was giving her DD practice as DD was having lessons too.

Busy roads are essential in my opinion for practice but it can be annoying if you're in a hurry.

IamFriedSpam · 09/03/2017 16:15

I think a lot of posters are just projecting here because their own DC's are learning to drive currently

Definitely this. I just passed my test recently - I was/am a super nervous driver and just stayed in "learner land" until I was safe on the main road. Going a bit slow is understandable (and you can just give extra distance in case of nervous breaking) but cutting up another driver is dangerous - and there was no way for OP to give her extra space or predict that she was going to do that.
Whoever was supervising her should have said "oops we're in the wrong lane better go straight on instead and we'll turn around later".

PageStillNotFound404 · 09/03/2017 16:27

Speed limits are a maximum - if the driver is happier doing 20 than 30, there is absolutely nothing wrong or dangerous about that.

If there is nothing untoward about the conditions e.g. weather, visibility etc that would make driving at the speed limit unsafe, it is wrong. You can fail your test for not making good forward progress or some such phrase, which means driving too slowly for the conditions.

scottishdiem · 09/03/2017 16:27

"You should obviously have anticipated her cutting you up without even a hint of indication!"

Well yes. It was a learner. Thats what they do. I give them plenty of space (if only because when I was a learner I started to enter a roundabout but my instructor didnt think I had judged it right and slammed on the breaks. Car behind me hit us as they thought it was a huge gap and were going to go too. So I am wary of learners even when with an instructor).

LRDtheFeministDragon · 09/03/2017 16:57

I don't think you should beep at learners, so I let it go but anyone else who cut me up like that would have got the horn and the finger!

Sounds as if you need some remedial lessons yourself, OP. You're a shit driver.

Original poster
Runny · 09/03/2017 17:06

Nope. I know im a good driver, never had a speeding ticket in over ten years of driving. And even if I was a shit driver it would be a damn sight better than being disabalist.....

OP posts:
Sirzy · 09/03/2017 17:09

I am not sure not having a speeding ticket is an indicator of being a good driver. Or just an indicator or being lucky and never being caught! (And I say that as someone else with 10 years with a clean licence thankfully!)

PatMullins · 09/03/2017 17:09

I am very considerate to learners, I remember clear as day how it was for me.

Saying that, YANBU, if they can't maintain their speed and have a good degree of hazard perception there is no way they should be on a main road.

I almost witnessed carnage on the M2 a couple of weeks ago and that was a proper instructor with a learner Shock

lampygirl · 09/03/2017 17:18

You do need to give learners a bit more stopping distance etc because they don't always act with warning, but I would never give additional room to a vehicle alongside me in a different lane as otherwise we'd never overtake. When I learned it was always drummed into me that you wouldn't fail if you went the wrong way as long as it was safe and legal, so in that case the learner should have followed the lane they were in and then gone round another roundabout or something further up and gone back on themselves. They should not have cut the OP up or veered over across lanes. Otherwise they should have waited where they were and indicated looking apologetic and someone will probably let them in. L plates aren't a free pass to do whatever the fuck you want, otherwise I'd get some and never worry about lane discipline again...

BackforGood · 09/03/2017 17:19

I think a lot of people aren't answering the question the OP asked, which is "AIBU too think that complete learner drivers shouldn't be on very busy main roads unless with a proper instructor?"

and are answering
"AIBU to think that all learner drivers shouldn't be on very busy main roads unless with a proper instructor?

Which are two very different things.

I agree with you OP - YANBU. Learning to drive from scratch is quite complicated. You need to be able to control the car fairly smoothly before having to start worrying about lots of other traffic / busy roads / unfamiliar junctions / etc.

Oh, and I have LOTS of empathy with learners and new drivers, as I have 2 dc who have passed their tests within the last year.

Sugarlightly · 09/03/2017 17:27

Pugalug- you need to take the L plates off your car when you are driving.

PJBanana · 09/03/2017 17:28

It makes me laugh on threads like these where posters are all perfect drivers... Wink

Completely agree, OP. When I learned to drive I was taken around small industrial parks and empty car parks until I'd mastered the clutch, gears etc. Then I moved on to small housing estates, then main roads. Regardless of whether you're learning with a proper instructor or a family member, that's just pure common sense.

From your OP it sounds like this learner was nowhere near ready to be driving on busy main roads. Yes, she may have 'just as much right as any other road user to be there', but that doesn't mean that it was a good decision. It sounds like she was a genuine danger to other road users and potentially to pedestrians as well. If she was unable to stop/move/adjust speed properly she should not, under any circumstances, have been driving on a main road.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 09/03/2017 17:35

Nope. I know im a good driver, never had a speeding ticket in over ten years of driving. And even if I was a shit driver it would be a damn sight better than being disabalist.....

Well, clearly you're not a good driver as you've just said you'd break the rules of the road for anyone else.

I've no clue what the disablist comment is about.

Sparklingbrook · 09/03/2017 17:40

My 17 year old passed his test in January. Does that make me eligible to comment on the thread or not?

ilovesooty · 09/03/2017 17:44

I agree that the OP has a somewhat exaggerated view of her driving capabilities. Anyone who thinks it's ok to give people the horn and the finger is a shit driver.

FourKidsNotCrazyYet · 09/03/2017 17:56

I agree OP. My DC3 is nearly at test taking time. I wouldn't have felt safe taking her on public roads without dual controls. It's not fair on anyone. She learnt with my husband on a disused airfield then had 'proper' lessons on the road with a fully qualified instructor and dual controls.

milliemolliemou · 09/03/2017 18:14

No response to OP I know but
a) why aren't there simulators for ordinary cars as there are for aircraft/racing cars/amusement arcades. With real life scenes and roads (including a healthy number of mobile phone messages, text alerts so you realize what happens when you text back/check facebook/livestream
b) is there a proposal that new drivers should have some motorway experience?
c) why don't we follow Canada and have new drivers use special plates for a year and be disallowed more than one passenger? And be limited on engine capacity? clearly the cost of insurance tends to ensure young newbies don't go above 1300cc but clearly a minority do as shouldn't.
d) why don't more insurance companies use the in board gadget that monitors driving (for every driver not just newbies) and lessens insurance costs for those driving responsibly?
e) dual controls? is this mandatory? clearly not if some pps are getting dcs trained in own car with instructor.
e) why aren't I the Roads Czar?

But I agree with PPs that patience is needed with learners- though the instructor in her instance should clearly have told his learner to stick to her lane and not change unless indicating and preferably correct later on.