Honestly, to all intensive purposes you will thank me for this one day

[MutePoint]

I'm in no position to join the grammar police but some MNetters might be grateful to learn that

all intensive purposes should actually be: all intents and purposes

per say should be: per se

mute point should be: moot point

Upthread I mentioned that frit to death is the one I dislike the most and someone said it's not wrong it's regional.

That may be the case but it doesn't change the fact that it's not an alternative word to frightened.

Frit is a verb that means: the mixture of silica and fluxes which is fused at high temperature to make glass.

I'm not pedantic but with the best will in the world I don't see how you can associate being frightened with glass making

anxious all 4.5 million people in ROI say haitch. I work for the N haitch S.
I remember reading Enid Blyton etc books as a child and being amazed at the spelling mistakes in the text -"they went to an hotel"
I knew, you see, that the correct way (to us) is to say "they went to a hotel".
So to me it is the aitch that grates.
But otherwise this thread is like the relief of a lanced boil...getting all the irritation out!!

Whether people say it or not it's still incorrect, according to language experts,the dictionary and etymology.

Whether people say it or not it's still incorrect, according to language experts,the dictionary and etymology

Who gets to decide what the correct way of saying a letter is?

Offense
Defence

You can say the same word in different ways and it still has the same meaning. Who gets to decide which way is correct?

'an hotel' is correct actually! Bonkers, but correct.

www.whichenglish.com/Better-English-Grammar/usage/haitch-or-aitch.html

"Who gets to decide what the correct way of saying a letter is?

Offense
Defence"

With the 's' it's US English, with the 'c' it's British English e.g. licence is the noun and license (or licence) is the verb in British English but licence is both in US English.

Who gets to decide is probably the established dictionary experts e.g. Oxford Dictionary in the UK and Merriem Webster in the US and accepted usage.

I rather like it when people point it out, if they can do it in a humorous or kind way. I didn't get a very good English education and would rather not keep repeating mistakes!

Fair enough, anxious. You're right, and 4 million+ others are wrong. Keep telling yourself that, if it makes you feel superior...

The BBC

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11642588

Aitch vs Haitch

British English dictionaries give aytch as the standard pronunciation for the letter H. However, the pronunciation haytch is also attested as a legitimate variant. We also do not ask broadcasters who naturally say haytch to change their pronunciation but if a broadcaster contacted to ask us, we would tell them that aytch is regarded as the standard pronunciation in British English, people can feel very strongly about this and this pronunciation is less likely to attract audience complaints.

Haytch is a standard pronunciation in Irish English and is increasingly being used by native English-speaking people all across the country, irrespective of geographical provenance or social standing. Polls have shown that the uptake of haytch by younger native speakers is on the rise. Schoolchildren repeatedly being told not to drop Hs may cause them to hyper-correct and insert them where they don't exist.

OK

As teachers, we are told to teach children not to say haitch because it's incorrect.

Your just beeing pedantical.

As teachers, we are told to teach children not to say haitch because it's incorrect

Really? I've never seen any official guidance on saying 'aitch' or 'haitch'.

Plenty of guidance on the 'sound' when you are teaching phonics as in 'h / a ' t' to blend to make 'hat' but no guidance on saying the actual letters - as in the alphabet song.

I was taught on my letters and sounds training that some letters are pronounced 'locally' .

Really? I've never seen any official guidance on saying 'aitch' or 'haitch

I was talking about official guidance from the DFES on pronouncing the letter 'h' in schools and telling children that 'haitch' is wrong.

Because there is a massive issue with telling pupils that local dialect is wrong. It's hard for Northern teachers and Southern teachers who find themselves in different areas where children have different accents. If your DC's teacher told them their pronunciation of a word / letter was wrong - and your DC was pronouncing it locally, then people would get upset.

And I feel for Lancashire teachers especially

Haitch vs aitch has been done to death here. As others have said it's regional. "Haitch" is accepted in Ireland and is used by the vast majority of Irish people.

Like a PP some of these errors only make sense when you consider accents- "chester draws" makes no sense in an Irish accent as we clearly pronounce the second syllable in drawers for example. In the same way that lots of Julia Donaldson's rhymes don't work in my accent (scarf/giraffe, idea/ear, greedier/encyclopaedia etc).

On an Internet forum I generally wouldn't correct grammar. In my job however (doctor) I frequently dictate letters and find all sorts of grammatical/spelling errors in the typed letter. Occasionally these are sent out to patients/GPs before I can correct them (if I'm on holidays etc) and I hate it.

In the same way that lots of Julia Donaldson's rhymes don't work in my accent (scarf/giraffe, idea/ear, greedier/encyclopaedia etc

Maybe we need a Northern version

Or an Irish version!

Or a Lancashire version

I went to Blackbuuuuurn to see cousin Earrrrrn.

(Disclaimer - Lancashire roots mixed with Yorkshire upbringing)

Who giveth tee shit

Actually the English language consists of strange words. I or y.. Sister or syster.
If you look at the 16 the century most of the spelling of words is unrecognisable and no one gave a toss.

I don't think I agree with the regional haitch. I'm from the north and I have said aitch my whole life, as have many of my friends. My husband is southern and always says haitch.

My DP and I are from Northumberland, grew up 20 miles apart. He says "haitch", I say "aitch". Interestingly, if you're as dull as me, autocorrect likes haitch but corrects aitch to 'an itch'.

It's not about your agreement though, it is an accepted regional variation in Ireland at least! This article discusses the use of haitch in Ireland, as does this. It's only one example of differences between how the language is spoken in the two countries. We also pronounce "r" more like "orr" than "aah" but that seems to irritate people less for some reason! Regardless aitch vs haitch does not affect grammar, which is what this thread was about.