to think that a twin necked guitar is gimmicky and would make DS look like a twat?

[WankersHacksandThieves]

My lovely DS2 (15) has been learning the bass guitar for a little while. We got him a 2nd hand bass/amp etc for his birthday, he messed around himself for a few months and has now been taking lessons for 3 months.

He has dreams of being in a band etc. fairly typical teenage dream.

He hasn't studied music at school but wants to take it up again after the summer and says he's really keen.

He wants to upgrade his bass which I'm fine with. He has saved up £540 but has seen this twin necked thing that he absolutely has to have - it's nearly £1000. He is desperate to start selling stuff to get the money together.

To me it's the kind of thing a successful rock star may have on stage at Wembley, it's not the sort of thing you would be using to gig around pubs etc. DH says he'll get laughed at and look a twat.

He's been really good lately, getting stuck into his studies and generally being great to be around. He was fairly down and hating school a few months ago and very moody, we want to keep his mood positive since he only has two months until exam time and he also has a fair amount of course work he needs to submit that goes towards his exam results.

I'm currently trying to gently question his choice and telling him not to rush in and he'd be better waiting until after the exams to start digging stuff out to sell or getting a part time job. DH thinks we should just say "No" and tell him that he'll look a twat...

Are we wrong? Anyone think this is a good idea? Anyone got any tips on what to say to him?

Thanks celtie I appreciate the help.

and larry those type of comments are best ignored, just trying to be inflammatory for the sake of it.

DH loves DS. He is inclined to be negative about a lot of things but I guess that is not unexpected in someone with depression. He is aware of his somewhat negative attitude which is why he was trying to stay out of it even though he has a bit more knowledge than me. And yes, as a PP says we would use twat as a more minor insult in line with prat and twit.

Time to sack off the tutor (if possible!). An instrument for a 15/16 year old is not a financial investment, it is a thing of joy.

I would change the teacher. He sounds like a twat. If your ds still wants a double necked guitar once he can afford it then there's nothing wrong with him learning to play it once he has it, I don't think he'll look like a twat, gotta start somewhere

Ds would be upset if I sacked the tutor. Also he is doing it for his skill for DofE, he really wants to do 6 months, He has done 3 so technically that would be enough and he could do 6 for his physical but he wouldn't want to do that! However, I would need to get his tutor to sign it off before he gets ditched.

I've not messaged him yet and not told DH yet either but will shortly as we are going out for a walk.

DS been down and is now desperate to get it and thinks I am being negative for the sake of it and is saying (quite rightly) that I suggested he speak to his tutor and now I am going against this since the tutor didn't agree with me. I've suggested he speak to the music teacher at school and get a range of views, maybe an online forum too. He says if he doesn't buy it he feels he would regret it for the rest of his life.

Also saying that it is much cheaper than it normally sells for so that is jangling alarm bells in my head too.

Can you link to this fantastic bargain??? Alarm bells would be ringing for me as well. I wouldnt buy any instrument sight unseen unless I'd dealt very closely with that particular retailer before and trusted them. I also doubt very much that you can avoid import taxes.

I don't have a link he's told me the name of the guitar though. I'll grab him later and get the exact link off him. I've also said about it being a lot of money on something you haven't seen or touched or know if you like...apparently if that is the case, he'll just sell it for twice what he bought it for...

Gaaarrrraahhhh!!!

Ok, so don't get rid of the tutor just yet...

Maybe your son should check out basschat.co.uk

Thanks Alec, i've just sent him the link and suggested he asks about twin necks and their suitability for beginners as well as researching the particular guitar he wants.

Just going back to square one for a moment... your son wants a double neck guitar that is a 4-string bass and a 6-string electric? These are very, very rare - mainly because no one wants them! Most double neck guitars are a 6-string and a 12-string electric.

The other thing to consider if playing a bass/electric combo is that, obviously, you can't play them both at the same time. And to be honest, if you're in a band the last thing the guitarist wants is for the bass player to suddenly start playing some fancy guitar solo.

Hi
Spoke to a bass (and lead) guitar player today and agreed your DS is likely to make a fool of himself with a double neck until he is truly proficient and rich enough to ignore nay sayers at which point it won't matter.
What will happen if he discovers girls?

Thanks people. Yes, it is a 4 string bass and normal electric guitar as far as I know.

He laready said himself he was wondering about amps as he has a bass amp but thinks he would also need a guitar one but tutor says that what he has is fine...

Now told DH who is as angry as I am now - still not calm enough to even message him (tutor) never mind actually speak to him.

I'm about to send the following message - too much?

"I'm not quite sure how we got from deciding that a twin necked guitar was not a good idea for a beginner, to you supporting him to buy it. (with money he doesn't have). (DS2) may look very mature but at the end of the day he is a 15 year old child who has been learning bass for 3 months and is now wanting to spend his entire savings plus selling half his possessions in order to buy something that is impractical, sounds potentially dodgy and isn't in the UK. I put off messaging you earlier as I was so angry however time has passed and I am still angry. What (DS2) needs at this point is a decent instrument to practise on and learn to play properly, not some gimmicky instrument. Once he can play well and has an independent income, then that would be a good time to indulge in that type of thing. Anyway, just wanted to make you aware how angry and annoyed I am. Now I have to deal with managing his expectations at a time where he should be getting on with the work he needs to do for school, without crushing his dreams and ambitions. I appreciate part of your role as a tutor is to encourage and enthuse him, but I think it's also to appropriately guide him."

I think it's too much, I think I'd go along the lines of asking the tutor to explain to you why they think it's a good idea for a beginner to spend all their savings on a dodgy import which is a complete turnaround from your last conversation. Then state that you expect them to back you in making DS see sense and concentrate on normal bass at this stage. I'd add the final line re appropriate guidance.

The other thing about higher music is that although it's very broad-based, it's much more difficult for pupils who don't have a solid background in reading music.

I think OP may be underestimating what is needed for Higher music.

My son did Higher, Advanced Higher and a music degree. He started with piano having lessons from around 6. His second instrument was guitar and from that he also plays bass and mandolin. The theory side of it was intense. I was taught piano and I can sight read but the theory he had to cope with compared to what I know was a bit like Ordinary Arithmetic compared to say university level maths.

I agree with just about every one that a double neck guitar would be a very odd choice for a beginner. As others have said even Jimmy Page only used it very occasionally for a very few songs (notably Stairway to Heaven) where he needed to switch from 6 string to 12 string in the same song.

Thanks celtie I'll tone it down along those lines, as you can tell I'm still very annoyed!!

Lass it's not me that's underestimating, I have no clue tbh, it's DS. As long as he passes nat5 maths and gets decent results in the 4 subjects he want to take at higher, I now think he'd be better to do Nat5 in 5th year with a view to doing Higher in 6th if he is still keen/does well.

I now have the link to the actual guitar, it's a foreign made replica so hence the difference in price between that and the originals which haven't been made since the 1980s.

Just going back to square one for a moment... your son wants a double neck guitar that is a 4-string bass and a 6-string electric? These are very, very rare - mainly because no one wants them! Most double neck guitars are a 6-string and a 12-string electric

I can't think of any reason why anyone would want a double neck 4 string bass 6 string guitar.

OP - I remember many years ago when a slight aquaintance of mine invited me to their party and announced they would be playing 'Sweet child o' mine' in their band and they would be playing lead. Was going on about it for weeks.

They came on, with their tutor, and proceeded to just about keep up with the chords, no twiddling - no widdling - just a few strums. It was really embarrassing for them. They were really rubbish.

Playing guitar well is hard. Very hard. Why not tell him once he is of a standard to play live, in his band, in a lead role, and is confident at playing say - 20 songs - you will consider it. Til then, he needs to actually learn to play the basics.

It's like the person who gets their driving licence and orders a BMW. Before they can even drive. Absolutely ridiculous.

okay, I've gone with "Hi (tutor), I am wondering if you can explain why you think it's a good idea for (DS2) to spend his entire savings (plus whatever he can make by selling half his stuff) on an imported replica guitar that I thought we'd agreed wasn't suitable for a beginner learner? I'm really confused and annoyed as I though we were on the same page about this? I really don't want to crushing his dreams and ambitions, but he also has other stuff he needs to focus on and this is an unnecessary distraction for him. I appreciate part of your role as a tutor is to encourage and enthuse him, but I think it's also to appropriately guide him.

I've pointed out to him that the reason they are rare is because no one wants them.

Great message !! Hope it gets the tutor to back you up. Buying a foreign made replica would be like putting your cash in a pile and burning it.

There are past papers here.

Can your son read and write music? And by that I mean bass clef and treble cleff staff notation - not just guitar tabs. He will need to be able to for Higher music.

SQA - NQ - Past Papers and Marking Instructions
www.sqa.org.uk/pastpapers/findpastpaper.htm?subject=Music&level=NH

Thanks both.

He hasn't read it yet but I'll be heading to bed as soon as the dishwasher finishes it's cycle.

I'll get him to look at the past papers tomorrow Lass. he tells me he can read music properly as I asked him that yesterday. How well he does that I have no idea but he did use proper sheet music when he played the tin whistle so that may be completely true.

We've had a chat. Seems he was bowled over by DSs enthusiasm and couldn't bring himself to discourage him. He apologised about 30 times. It's like having an extra DS. I explained that all he needed to say was "that looks cool buddy but it's not what you need right now" He is further victim of DSs "cat from shrek face". Anyway DS sent the link. DH and I have investigated and it looks a sham. Cheap made Chinese replica imports that use cheap parts and aren't well put together. DH is going to show DS in the morning and stress the need to buy from a reputable company and tell him that he'll take him for a trip to the city to pick out something really nice. Fingers crossed. Tutor is going to make some proper suggestions too.

Glad this appears to be working out.

The only twin necks anyone reputable would touch are the Gibsons that Jimmy Page played, and those are a) 6 and 12-string guitars and not 6-string and bass, and b) absolutely a fast lane to everyone who knows anything about guitar laughing at you if you rock up to a gig with one. Jimmy Page gets to use one because he's Jimmy Page.

I'm a musician who's been playing all my life, with 25 years of gigging and recording under my belt. I'm also a HUGE guitar nerd. Guitar/bass twin necks simply aren't a thing. Nobody has one. Nobody wants one. Such a thing would be a comedy boondoggle.

Bless your DS, he needs to let this one go.

£500 will get him most of the way to a standard Fender Precision Bass (or a Fender Jazz Bass if he has smaller hands - the neck is slimmer on a Jazz). There is no better start in bass-playing life. A Squier - Fender's budget line - will be almost as good and a great choice for a beginner.

Most of the great rock and pop music in the history of rock and pop music has been underpinned by one of these instruments. The design hasn't changed since the 50s, for a reason. It's perfected.

Best of luck to him! :)

Thanks Terror. It's a 2nd hand fender squier P bass he has. :) He has big hands, he has big everything! He is coming up for 6'2 and solid with it. I'll look into the other one mentioned.