" ...phobia of female friendships..." has this ever happened to you?

[btfly2]

I found and article talking about some ladies that never felt comfortable around women to be friends with. Some stories about isolation or bullying in the childhood or teenager's years scarred them until today and the idea of being sorrounding by a group of female companion feels like a horror movie for them.
Sometimes I feel similar but then I try to overcome it for the sake of my children and try to be friendly with other mums or in different situations where a group of girls gathered...but tbh is such a bloody hard work that I always find my house is a castle, my husband and my kids my world and I don't need anything else! Though not completely true, I think it would be really nice to have a nice bunch of girls to be part of and feel loved and supported. Anyway in my case and in my forties still going solo most of the time and with no female friendships on sight. Is only me?? Can you share your experiences so I don't feel I'm the crazy one! Thank you!

I make my choice not to seek female friendship (or, sadly, any friendship at all) based on my life experience. I have endured life altering bullying and emotional abuse and it has all been at the hands of women. I grew up with a mother with BPD (also interestingly a forthright "feminist") who made it her mission to destroy my self worth. Being that child laid me open to bullying from my peers so I got it at home and at school. No let up. Ever. If you cut me open I'm just all the awful things women have said to me branded white hot. So now, I'm just me. They can't all be wrong so there must be something truly awful about me. I just save them the bother and stay on my own. I'm not going to go out and actively seek rejection! I'll smile, I'll have a go at light chat and I'll fake it as much as I can but I'm not letting women in. Sad, but true.

I don't doubt there are great, lovely, kind women somewhere but there isn't much left of me that can cope with trying to find them.

Most of my friends are women. I wouldn't say I'm super close to them but we get on well. I'm not going to be sharing my innermost thoughts, feelings and worries with them but when we get together we have fun. We don't have any bitchy group dynamics or competitiveness (not that I'm aware of anyway).

Some women I get along very well with. Some I don't.

I have to say though, the couple of women I've met who are self professed "I don't get along with other women" types I've really not got along well with. They were both vain, low self esteem, manipulative and bitchy. That's a small subset though so I won't judge all of you on here saying you don't get along with women based on that...if you agree not to judge me based on the women you've befriended before!

I´ve made a few great female friendship in the last few years which have all grown gradually from shared interests. For example, I started going swimming in lunch break with a colleague and now, three years later, I´d consider her a close friend. Maybe you could try something similar, OP? Maybe it would take the pressure off being friends at the start?

I have endured life altering bullying and emotional abuse and it has all been at the hands of women.

When this has happened, it's not surprising if you're reticent about getting to know women. Logically you know it isn't all women but obviously it is easier said than done to "just get over it" etc. The fear is deeper and longer-lasting than simple logic, as from what I understand, it's in a more basic (reptile?) part of the brain.

Without a background of trusting relationships with women it's much harder to connect, as you don't know how. It can seem a mystery how others do it. You may appear to others to be wary, and that's OK too. Those who are sensitive or have some idea how it feels to have difficulty making friends will understand, take it slowly, know it is not about them, and still talk to you kindly. Any who don't aren't good candidates for a friendship with you.

I've just come across this post and it's made me so much more comfortable knowing I am not the only person feeling like this.
I haven't had any close friends since school and I'm now in my forties. It not that I don't get on with women, it's just that I don't let anyone get to close due to a fear of being hurt or dragged into pointless drama. I am part of a small book group and the ladies are lovely but it's taken me 3 years to feel comfortable enough to entertain them at my house in a couple of weeks time.
I have one good friend who seems to have disappeared since I announced I was pregnant (28 weeks) and only gets in touch when she wants something from myself or dh. I just can't be bothered anymore.
I don't feel sorry for myself but I do get very lonely and envious of others who have that best friend bond and closeness with others.
Can I also say that when I do start to feel comfortable, I'm actually a very nice, loyal and fun asset to others... I just pick the wrong people at the wrong times 😀

I have observed though, that when things go wrong in these groups it has the potential to turn really, really nasty.

I have observed the same in mixed-sex groups. Petty intrigue and drama.

I don't have any friend groups. Only singular friends with whom I meet alone.

What I recommend to OP is:

Do not consider those groups you interact with for the sake of your children as friends. Simply consider them acquaintances, and treat them accordingly.

In larger groups, there's a risk of there being a bad egg, and if you invest a lot in the group as group, emotionally, there's higher risk of being hurt.

With my friends (whom I know very well, because I socialise with them separate from group settings) I have never had disappointments, but I have seen lots of drama in the mixed sex groups I have been part of.

Milk you're definitely onto something

My personal experience is that I have suffered far more and been treated far worse by far more women than I have by men.

But my experiences are negated and I'm called a hand-maiden, or an MRA, or misogynistic because it doesn't fit the "women are ace and wonderful, men are untrustworthy bastards" narrative. And thus adding to the loooong list of women who have put me down and made me feel like shit.

And my ex was emotionally, financially, physically abusive - you name the lot. It's still the women who have hurt me the most. It was ingenious of my ex to turn some of my best female friends and the school mum gang against me after our separation. Some women cannot, it seems, focus on activities etc but need ongoing relational drama at all costs.

relational aggression is a good term to google, women are generally much better at it than men. My ex is a feminine man who is also great at it, but normally men lack the social capacity for it, just like I do, being autistic.

I always get the feeling that the posters who come on these threads and say 'well it must be your fault, there must be something wrong with you' or can't imagine not having female friends and view those who don't with suspicion are the sort of people who cause the bad experiences in the first place...

Bill that's a very interesting point indeed

Excellend advice Vestal

I don't have any friend groups. Only singular friends with whom I meet alone. What I recommend to OP is: Do not consider those groups you interact with for the sake of your children as friends. Simply consider them acquaintances, and treat them accordingly. In larger groups, there's a risk of there being a bad egg, and if you invest a lot in the group as group, emotionally, there's higher risk of being hurt.

I agree re: groups of people. Just one bad apple in a group of otherwise nice people has the potential to do maximum damage.

I don't 'put my eggs in one basket' for that very reason. Spread the risk.

Also, the minute someone starts bitching about someone else, their card is well and truly marked. If they can do it to them, they can do it to me.

Italwaysworksitselfout isnt it a shame that there are many people who post on MN who would love to enjoy one or two nice uncomplicated loyal friendships and you think, I wish I could meet those folk in RL because I feel exactly the same! Where are they when we need them?!

It's totally normal for anyone who's been abused by someone female, and I'm including school bullying in that, to be phobic of women as a result.

Just like it is with people who've been abused more by men/boys being phobic of anyone male. No-one should be shamed for it. Unless they use bigotry to rationalise it, they've got nothing to be ashamed of.

Also, toxic friendships can have very similar effects to toxic relationships in that not only can they make you phobic but they can mean that you only "see" horrible people and keep attracting them for no apparent reason. It can become a vicious circle, with each bad experiece only serving to cement the negative feelings towards people.

And I think the same advice applies. If female friendships are something you want, and there's no law that says you have to want them, only cultural conventions, then start by minimising contact with any women who feed your negative feelings about their gender, then look at how this developed and what you can do to recover from it.

For me, the first step alone was enough for them to start appearing, though I keep working on the second as I want to be the best friend I can.

Also, it's interesting that others have mentioned autism; I don't necessarily get on with other autistic people very well, it depends on what traits they have, but all my female friends now are autistic too. I didn't go out of my way to befriend other autistic people, it's just more likely that we'll be into the same things and have similar communication and emotional needs.

Also I second the stuff about friendship groups. They seem so common on the TV! But I've only had them cause trouble in real life. I'm sure they work out fine for many people, but they are very risky.

I'd say I have a 50/50 mix of male & female friends. I can totally understand where a phobia of large groups of women would come from. However, the most bitchy people I know are dh's football teammates and friends. They are never happy for each other, bitch behind each other's backs, will slag of anyone that doesn't agree with them. They give me genuine anxiety! I think the "men will fight and get over it" myth has been peddled out a bit too much. In fact my youngest son has started playing with girls at school over boys as they're less catty and two faced. I think it's largely the individual. However that's just my personal experience and element of luck at finding a couple of great friends, and a handful of decent acquaintances.
(Sorry for length)

Hi OP

I feel exactly the same, I could have written your post myself!

I have no real friends, just acquaintances. I was bullied as a child/teen and have very little trust in women. My DD and DP are my whole world, I feel like I don't need anyone else, but then at times I would love to have some good friends who really love me. Especially on occasions like now that I'm getting married

I just can understand this attitude - "I hate women and don't trust them. Why don't they want to be my friend, the stupid wagons?". I mean, if you listened to yourself, you might be able to hazard a guess, but just in case, most people like people who like them.

I have a great bunch of female friends. But we are all busy with work and children too.
I do see some stories on here and think how do you let that happen. Living in wacky others pockets and being too intense would be a recipie for disaster for any friendship.

Actually for all the cries of 'feminism' I think it's often the other way around and the people who are on the end of these bad experiences are often those who step outside prescribed gender roles most often and the bad experiences are a result of shows of disapproval of that and attempts to bring them back into line. See the posts above about some women being 'too competitive' or those without close female friendships being viewed with suspicion.

It's all very well to complain it's a stereotype, but at the same time it's very much reinforcing another stereotype that women should socialise with other women and be 'supportive' and 'empathetic' to other women and if they don't there must be some sort of fault with them.

BillS Great post!