pay nanny slightly less if she brings own child to work?

[msatlantis]

In the process of sorting childcare for when I return to work. First child so haven't done it before.

Two nannies I like.

The first has a LO almost 3 years old which she would like to bring to work with her. She did this in her previous post and said it worked well. Her rate is £10 ph net - so I guess about £15 an hour gross.

The second nanny is older. Children grown up. Her rate is actually slightly less than the first.

AIBU to think £10 net ph is a bit much for a nanny who is bringing their own child to work? She won't have child care costs and my LO won't have her sole attention.

If I decide to go with her is it acceptable to try and negotiate this down a little bit?

10ph net is not much for someone with good qualifications (I'm in SW London), so that might be a reduced rate.

Regarding her child, I would be open to the idea but do a trial period. You need to discuss the following:

• damages to your property done by her child: who pays?
• are yo happy for her DC eat your food? what if they eat out, who should pay?
• admission fees / activities: you will want you DC to go to certain places, is she happy to pay the fee for her DC herself?

• Sickness (stomach bug/contagious): what happens if her DC is unwell, does she have backup childcare or will she need to be off work?

Same q if it is your child : is she happy to come to work regardless (this one is important, as a big advantage of a nanny is that she usually looks after unwell DC, take them to the doctor etc)

I wouldn't do this. What if your kid and hers don't get on?

Always, always agree gross. If you go with NWOC be very clear about the arrangements before you do so. Discuss all possible scenarios e.g. what happens when Nanny's child starts school next year, is there a school run? Who is providing food? Is there a requirement now for a double buggy, who is storing it? What happens if your child is sick, is nanny still bringing her child? What happens if her child is sick, is she still coming with your nanny to work? etc etc. If the other nanny is equally suitable and cheaper, why not go with her?

We hired a nanny with her own child and it is working really well. There is 9 months between hers and my youngest and 3 years between hers and my oldest who is at school. Her little boy is a great companion for my youngest and bridges the gap between my two so they all play together really nicely. I have never had any concern about her time with my children and I adore her little boy. It works for us. We did pay her slightly less than she might have got elsewhere without taking her child with her but we also pay for him to attend groups and obv all his food and any other activities they do. It seems to work well on both sides.

Always agree gross

From what I've read NWOC would usually be paid about 25-30% less. So, less than sole charge, but more than half a nanny share rate.

The exception is families with a long established much loved nanny who then has a baby and wants to return with the baby - in those cases salary is often not reduced, however that's not your position.

I considered NWOC and wrote it off - so glad I did as my eldest is high maintenance and I think a NWOC would have struggled, or at least would have resented/judged my child for being more difficult than hers.

I haven't found a nanny that will agree gross - they only take net round here.

I was worried I might resent the time she spent with her own child because she was finding that in the role she was in prior to us so we arranged an afternoon for us all to get together and we could see the dynamic between the kids and how she managed it. She is an awesome nanny and as soon as I met her son he became real and I knew I'd never feel that resentment. But all of the posts advising caution are right. You need to consider all of those points. For us my first had been in nursery and made amazing friends there who remain his best friends and I felt a bit sad for my youngest that he would be on his own with a nanny (nursery didn't work with school times...etc for us) so having a friend at home was appealing.

I haven't found a nanny that will agree gross - they only take net round here

Same here... Until last month when my wonderful nanny told me that with the new pension rules if we continued on the net agreement I will have to pay her pension contributions as well as my employer's ones which isn't fair so maybe we could re-write the contract with a gross salary. So unexpected!

MrsKoala when I had discussions with future nannies we talked about net rates, as that's what they were used to. However I always said I would want a gross pay agreement in the end, but I would calculate the initial gross rate to equate to £X net.

So when I hired a nanny I showed her using the online calculator that the £Y gross I was offering would equate to £X net. She was happy to sign up to £Y gross having seen that. You could try that?

It gets more complex if they have other jobs, but it's even more important to have a gross pay agreement in that case.

Our former nanny charged £10 an hour and brought her child to work. I didn't consider paying her less because of it. She was an amazing nanny and we were devastated when she eventually left. My little boy loved having someone to play with.

(Mind you, she was under the LEL so we did not have to do tax, NI or pension)

I'd go with the second one. No concerns when Nanny 1 has a sick child either.

The mother's help whom I employed for two days a week had 3 children exactly the same age and gender as my own. During school terms, 2 of hers (and 2 of mine) were in school (same school, same classes), so just the toddlers were together; and during holidays she had 6 children there!

But it all worked out fine. She also did my housework - downstairs and the laundry one day; upstairs and the ironing the next.

I had started out employing her as a cleaner; and then it morphed into child care. I paid her well - she deserved every penny!

It's a no brainer.

One without child is cheaper anyway.

She won't be calling work to say she can't come in because her child is sick or bringing child anyway when sick.

Why put yourself to the bother and your house to the additional wear and tear.

When I was a nanny I was told in one job I could stay if I had my own child but some employers wouldn't want that.

Things to think about

If your child is ill and she doesn't want to risk her child does she find child care or do you pay for no care

If her child is ill what are you expected to do?

There may be benefits in having the nanny bringing her own child along. A playmate for your little one, if they are a similar age and get along, it could be really good for them. Have you checked both the nannys references?

No question I'd go for the childless one.

is there a pension issue? is older nanny past pension contribution stage??

I wouldn't have a nanny who brought their own child to work and especially one who thinks she can demand the same rates of pay as a nanny without a child. As others have pointed out what if nanny needs time of for child being ill and so on. It's just problems waiting to happen IMHO. But it's up to you in the end.

I wouldn't go for the nanny with a child. She may also have another and you'll be stuck sorting maternity cover for her

We had a nanny with her own children and it worked brilliantly.

Her youngest went to playgroup 4 mornings a week and was collected by our nanny at lunchtime when she was coming back from an activity with DS. Both then napped, and then played until older siblings for both came home.

It was cheaper (worked out at 8.50 net). When our nanny's DCs were ill, they stayed with granny, when ours were ill, it was up to the nanny whether she brought them or not, otherwise they stayed with their dad, granny etc.

Our nanny stopped working for us when DS went to school 4 years ago now and she moved away. We see them in the holidays...

Cheers Minie - we have gone thru agencies and they all say it's net non negotiable. Perhaps if we advertised ourselves? We are currently looking for a new one. Sorry to derail OP.

Out of interest, are nannies all expected to be childless?

I understand this situation is different, but are you allowed to question potential nannies about their plans for covering childcare for their sick child? In other words, are nannies not covered by the same anti-discimination laws as every other employee?

(Sorry for the slight derail, I understand if no one answers, but reading the replies already given, this struck me as relevant.)

we have gone thru agencies and they all say it's net non negotiable

This is really annoying. Net pay is a minefield. It means you have to adjust their rate every time their tax status changes (for example if the govt changes the tax free allowance, or if they get a second job or lose a second job). And even worse when the new pensions come in. Nobody else in any other job gets paid net!

Perhaps you could discuss net pay with the agency but then agree gross with the nanny (I don't know if the agency gets involved at contract stage)?

Xeno I think if the child is being brought to work then it's fair enough to ask about plans for if the child is sick. That's a bit different from the standard situation where the employee comes to work and child is in childcare.