To think that there must be a tech related reason that so may teenagers are depressed and anxious

[38cody]

At least 70% of the teens I know are anxious and/or depressed. I don't remember any of my peers going through this - panic attacks, weeping etc.
I can only think that it's something to do with how they are communicating online?

I haven't read the full thread, but I have four children at two different secondary schools. They are almost constantly assessed and informed whether they are meeting expectations or falling short.

So DS3 will come home and tell me that he tried really hard in the latest test, but he only got a 4 and he is 'supposed' to be getting 5s.

When I was at school, we were given grades for our work, but there wasn't this constant pressure (apart from maybe an exam in each subject at the end of each year) and our grades weren't constantly compared against a hypothetical benchmark that some software had decided we were capable of.

Even in the olden days, there were different reasons for depression. My MIL developed depression when she returned to the UK after a wonderful time as a teen evacuee in the US and realised that she didn't fit in in her old country and didn't know what to do with herself. Quite similar to some pressures on young teens today, in a way.

My DM otoh had an outwardly very cushioned life; loving parents, did well at school, met very loving husband at uni, walked straight into job and had children. But she has a genetic condition which is linked with high anxiety- nobody knows quite why.

a distraction from feelings of depression seems to me better than focussing on it online with chat rooms and forums

I think you're misunderstanding how teens use online support groups. Obviously I monitor DD's group chats with these people, so I see what they chat about (bands, anime, gothic or emo fashion, hairstyles and how unfair your mother is for not allowing you to shave your head)

In between the normal teen angst and chatter they understand and support each other in worries their RL friends might not understand (school trips - being trapped on a bus with 30 odd other kids, having a panic attack in the middle of science, the urge to cut yourself or purge) but that isn't the focus of most of their chats.

These are children who all gravitated towards the same vloggers, people they felt they had something in common with. Even the vloggers themselves do not vlog solely about bullying, depression or EDs. DD followed people who dress like her, listen to the same music, watch the same anime etc and as such found a group of friends who also enjoy these things.

I think having access to someone your own age, who understands why you want to carve your arm up with your compass is far more valuable than watching a shitty musical but less valuable than RL, professional support.

It needs to be monitored by parents of course, there is always the danger that these children start encouraging each other to follow extreme diets or help each other hide evidence of their self harm, but if used correctly, they can be a lifeline to an isolated teenager who believes they are the only teenager in the world who has ever suffered MH issues.

Thankfully we haven't had to deal with any of the bad stuff yet. The group DD is involved in includes some older teens who've come out the other side who police anything that starts looking insidious.

I think dismissing tech as a possible problem (as well as a solution) would be a mistake.

As pp said, dismissing teen problems as 'typical teen' is also problematic.

Its an area that needs a lot more investigation and understanding - I listened to miserable music, moped in my room, lied and bunked off but I was never 'unhappy'. I do think there is more unhappiness among teens than ever before. (wasnt there some survey recently that showed our kids were some of the unhappiest in the world? - I will have a look)

Personally I do think it's a lot to do with technology. Having real life and relationships is completely different to an online chat. And whereas teenagers may be able to connect with someone at the click of a button, it doesn't have the same dynamic as a real life conversation.

Teenagers today are having every single tiny, little aspect of life beamed at them 24/7. If you want to buy a pair of evening shoes, and are given the choice of two it's a lot easier than if you are given the choice of 25.

There is so much out there to make you feel bad about yourself. A lot of it image centred and success centred. There is always, always going to be somebody prettier and more successful because you have access to everybody.

I totally understand a previous poster who mentioned going to see Mamma Mia. Whilst that may not be your cup of tea, the premise is to go out to be affected by external stimulus, as opposed to internal stimulus.

Simon Sinek did a great talk how technology affects Millennials today. How, for instance, when everyone is waiting to go into a meeting, they are not chatting or asking each other 'how's your mum now? Better now?', they are all head down on their phones and insulated.

And whereas there is comfort to be gained from a forum with other depressed individuals, it doesn't treat the cause, only the symptom.

I can see that going out would be better than sitting at home on instagram, sending PMs to your online friends, but if you've ever had a depressed teenager you will know it's not that easy.

DD would rather hide under her duvet doing nothing than actually leave the house when she is down, with or without her technology.

I do agree that social media and our constant access to it needs to be looked at as contributory factor in teenage MH issues but I don't think it is the sole cause of it.

38cody I think your suggestion that a depressed person watches mama mia perhaps shows your naivety towards what clinical depression actually is, and I'm glad you've accepted that might not be helpful.

I was first diagnosed 20 years ago. I spent time in a psych unit, with lots of other very disturbed teenagers. Prior to admission I'd found out that a couple of my school friends had taken overdoses etc so I wasn't the only one.

I think that there is too much pressure on kids academically now…so maybe those that might have been 'ok' are getting anxious etc now. There always would have been a % that would get depressed due to genes, environment etc (e.g. abuse) but I think the pressure of education, the thought of getting into debt for a degree, concern about housing, must make things so much worse. I agree that social media can be a factor everything seems to be about image now.

But I disagree about self help groups. I find them helpful- I'm getting through a massive relapse. Depression is extremely isolating and it also makes you rather insular…talking to others online helps me feel less alone, and helps me get a perspective through getting support, and people offer suggestions for coping strategies. Supporting others makes me think outside my own problems and actually helps me feel a bit better. Accepting that you have a problem does not make you become the diagnosis- it's the first step to getting better.

I don't think so, I just hid away in my bedroom, and listened to miserable music. I think it's just an awful time of life, both of mine found late teens incredibly stressful and depressing, there's just such a massive amount of pressure on them at exactly the wrong stage of development.

I think it's largely caused by too little control over their own lives. Being treated like children in terms of having to obey parents and teachers, but at the same time having huge exam pressures and social media pressures.

I was stressed and depressed as a teenager (before the internet was much used) but it's probably worse now. School was terrible and I hated living with my parents (not that they were strict). Was 100% happier as soon as I left home and could run my own life.

In the old days kids of 12 and over would be taking on much more responsibility and I think they thrive on that

When I was studying, a few years ago, I did a short review of research on the effects of online activity on mental health. One problem is that tech has moved on so fast, that a lot of research (esp that carried out over a longish period) quickly becomes out of date. Chat rooms on dial up are a bit different to being on social media 24/7.

I do believe that young people have access to much more support these days but they also have access to harmful material too - eg online bullying, unrealistic expectations caused by photoshopping/porn etc., the need to be 'liked' and to have an online presence. The world is a far bigger place than when I was growing up - when you only knew a handful of people.

I was severely depressed as a teenager and nobody had a clue. The fact that I could hide away in my room all day on my laptop probably made things much worse.

I hid and read books in my room.

I do worry about tech in some ways in that why eldest has fallen out with friendship group - she's been upset via phone outside school hours but on other hand school was all over it immediately.

I do think it a hard time of life for many - and that there are a lot of societal stresses that have gotten worse so don't think it's all tech fault.

It often pulls me up short when I realise that teenagers simply have no concept of what it's like to live without technology.

The way you had to make all arrangements in real life, by talking. The tremendous amount of time that we spent just waiting around. With absolutely nothing to do. The boredom. Arranging to meet somebody at 2 o'clock meant you could be waiting until 3 o'clock without thinking too much of it.

TV shut down at 11 o'clock, every night. Nothing was wall to wall.

If you wanted to buy a piece of music, you had to go out, get on a bus and go to the shop.

(I'm not talking here about clinical depression. I had a bout of that when I was a teenager. And it was directly related to lack of control in my life).

And of course all this pre-technology life sounds dreadful to a teenager. Technology has revolutionised our lives.

But I can't help thinking of the social contagion of sites like the anorexia 'pro-ana' sites, the dreadful cyber bullying of encouraging people to harm themselves, the de-sensitisation to porn. The cruelty and degradation that you can see at the touch of a button on YouTube.

The fact that bad news reaches you within seconds of it happening, with lots of mobile phone footage. It brings the world's ills directly into a teenager's bedroom.

It's heavy and it's hard to remain buoyant.

And it's here to stay, so the onus is on people to either self select or to have strong role models to help them.

I think it's partly social media so there is no escape from peer pressure.

Partly because there is higher expectations and more homework at school.

Partly because children and teenagers are having their problems taken more seriously. As a society we are much more child centred than when I was young.

I don't think its completely due to technology. but I can see it being part of it maybe.

I was depressed as a child (only diagnosed in my 20's) I had no tv in my room or tablet / gadget and the classic 90's brick mobile - not like todays smart phone, internet, youtube, facebook access. etc.

I personally blame pressure from education. all this sats, exams, targets, homework. kids are rebelling, bringing home their stress onto already emotionally stretched parents trying to keep their head above water, to hold down a job and keeping the bills paid. without having to deal with upset, rebelling teens.
my 6yrold dd was kept in a break because she hadn't read 3 times through the week. shes is on target but school think ramming reading down her throat will do good! she cries when I tell her to read the book 3rd time over. I think I would too

also, I find families struggle to unwind with kids and go out as its too expensive, cinema, meals out, theme parks. in general life has got too complicated. im just glad im not a teen in todays world.

Being a teenager is difficult but tech makes it worse. Everything is fake and everybody's lives look great so people feel inferior. Nobody posts pictures of the bad times only the good

I think I would have found life easier as a teenager if I could have talked to others over the internet who felt similar.
Self harm though, we know can have a contagious element to it. And is probably more common because of the internet. But there have always been very anxious and depressed teenagers, and there is more support out there now through the internet and Childline.

I think many are forgetting that in the past children who disclosed sexual abuse and harassment were often told off for making things up. Children and teenagers in the past were often dismissed, and their issues were not taken seriously. There are different things making teenagers anxious and depressed where things have got worse, and others that have got better.

'Screen time' has been extensively studied - ever since people started panicking about how television was affecting their kids, back in the fifties.

Teenagers who spend around four hours a day online are actually HAPPIER and have better mental health than teenagers who spend less. It relaxes them, it provides them with social contact, which is essential to basic well-being, and it allows them to connect to their peers in a world where parental panics make it much harder to interact in person.

So yes, YABU.

www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/01/13/257-minutes-time-teens-can-spend-computers-day-harming-wellbeing/

That survey is by no means conclusive.

Teenagers who spend around four hours a day online are actually HAPPIER and have better mental health than teenagers who spend less. - And I'm not sure where you got that from.

British teenagers ARE increasingly unhappy.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-33984082

Dismissing one factor outright is not a sensible way to go.

cheerful

That report said that four hours a day on a laptop, two hours a day on a phone, and 40 minutes a day gaming, is the optimum before mood started to drop.

I spend a good deal of time on my own phone. So I know that intrinsically it's not bad. It's about moderation.

Many teenagers spend a great deal more than two hours a day on their phone!

From the rest of that report.

Real people, real exercise, real environments and above all real relationships in the flesh are what young people need to develop into healthy adults

“I’m extremely worried by the extensive and indiscriminate exposure of adolescents to computers. It should be a very significant concern.”

They are almost constantly assessed and informed whether they are meeting expectations or falling short

^ This really hacks me off. He should be getting 7a instead of 6c, blah blah or whatever this bollocks is supposed to mean. It makes me livid. But the school buys into it lock stock and barrel. Its just not human to be measured like that all the fucking time (feeling angry this morning).

Generally, though, I think there is

1. A lack of structure - personal and moral. Stabilising things like going to church is something few children do.

1. The whole smartphone thing. I gave in when my son was 13, but I don't like athem and its put away early evening.

1. Technology every bloody minute. Just a quiet Sunday, with lunch, a bit of TV, a bit of homework - thats torture for teens apparently.

1. Loss of innocence earlier.

1. Life just very complex and sometimes chaotic and fast-changing. Even parents struggle with this (I do anyway), so whats a 15 year old to make of it.

1. Strong sexual pressures and moronic celebrity culture (rap and Rhianna)

Being a teenager is always shit because the brain is essentially rewiring itself from childhood to adulthood which is going to cause a lot of upheaval. However I wouldn't be surprised if over use of technology makes some of this worse.

birdybirdywoofwoof Tue 28-Feb-17 12:45:57

"British teenagers ARE increasingly unhappy.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-33984082"

What this does not explain is why British teenagers consistently come across as more unhappy than, say, Norwegian or Swedish teenagers in these surveys. It can hardly be because their Scandinavian peers have less access to technology: I can assure you that they do not.

Nor is the loss of innocence likely to give much of a clue: we didn't have much of that in Sweden when I was a youngster in the 60s and 70s and I don't suppose they've got more innocent since.

Church going also not likely to be a reason: Sweden, at least, is arguably the most secular country in the world.

Some reasons for perceived unhappiness of British teens in relation to their peers might be:

less access to/expectation to engage in outdoor activities

less healthy diet (most other European countries would be shocked to see crisps, chips and fizzy drinks as part of a regular everyday diet, and would struggle to get their heads round the idea that you can't serve healthy food at school lunches "because the kids wouldn't eat it")

more pressure to do well socially, since the perception is that unless you do you will have a very poor quality of life (ime Swedish teens expect that their lives will be relatively ok whether they do well at school or not)

survey-answering habits (how you rate your own satisfaction can be culturally conditioned and does not necessarily relate directly to the state of your MH; I have known people who would seriously state that they are very happy, though they are clearly struggling with their MH; what they mean is that they think they ought to be very happy)

Oh I agree Cory, but I don't think we should rule any reasons out. Obviously, it's going to be multi-faceted, but I think the idea that tech has NO baring on teen's happiness is a mistake. For some people it will do.

I think you're onto something there, birdy with "for some people"- would absolutely agree with that.

There is also the possibility that something like technology might have a different effect depending on your overall circumstances.

meaning something like, if you are in a setting which is already very pressurised and competitive, social media/celebrity culture might reinforce that to the point where it tips you over the edge.

but if you are in a more relaxed setting where you (think you) know everything's going to be all right, the same aspects of social media/celebrity culture etc might not touch you in the same way, because they don't seem real in the same way

Increased use of antibiotics is a factor too I believe. I'd say it is a result of modern life in general.