To think this isn't a shameful secret?

[ChewyChewy]

m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/14594914

"So why won’t your baby sleep through the night and why does everyone who says their baby does feel compelled to share that lie!"

Starting to get a bit fed up with all the sleep shaming that's going on. My baby has slept through since 2 months, not due to anything I've done but his own choice, and I feel very lucky indeed. But article after article talks about why babies shouldn't sleep through the night, why it's vital that they wake for food, comfort etc.

And at my baby group, I'm very lucky to be part of such a welcoming, non-competitive, supportive group of ladies, but the baby was young I would often have to fudge the sleeping question as my honest answers weren't met with enthusiasm.

This is not a woe is me post, I'm definitely not complaining about my lot, and I understand that these sorts of articles probably provide comfort to a lot of very tired people, but why the need to demonise?

People have different definitions of 'sleeping through' too. I consider DD to sleep through but she sometimes wakes a couple of times and just needs a little reassurance that we're still there (and Ewan the Dream Sheep to be restarted). I consider it to be 'sleeping through' because there is no requirement for me to move from my bed.

But I do believe it comes down to the baby, not the parenting. She's been a pretty good sleeper almost from birth (4 hours, a feed, then 3 hours from two weeks old and 8:30pm to 7am mostly from two months) we haven't done anything clever, we stick so some sort of vague routine, but it's certainly not strict.

Actually I know where the OP is coming from.
It's like sometimes, having a non sleeper is worn like a badge of honour.

A good friend of mine had a baby that slept right through the night within a few weeks (3 or 4 if I remember well).
She was worried sick that her baby didn't get enough milk, wouldn't grow well etc... add to that the fact she was a small ish baby and quite slender (and still is as 10yo), she was really worried abou that. Intesrestingly, the NOT eating enough is a worry that has stayed there for years too...

And my own DH told people for quite a while that our baby slept really badly, when actually she was waking once in the night. He had no idea either way because he was asleep whether she was or not! I only got the chance to correct my MIL when she started talking about how my DH was missing out on all this sleep and I was like erm...

My DD slept through from before she was full-term. I kept pretty quiet about it.

It's like sometimes, having a non sleeper is worn like a badge of honour.

That's because when you've fallen down the stairs while holding your baby and experienced hallucinations/waking dreams from extreme sleep deprivation, a little "honour" goes a long way to stop you fucking killing yourself and people who whinge because their babies DO sleep losing your mind.

Dear God, how does MN find these people.

My DD is 20 - and she still doesn't sleep through the night! She thinks she does, because she has no recollection of the fact that I physically have to wander down the stairs after her, turn her around/gently get her out of cupboards in the kitchen, and herd her back to her bed at least once every night! She has sleep aponea, though, and her sleep-walking/binge-eating gets worse with stress, but as I also have a 12 year old (who doesn't sleep walk/sleep binge eat at the moment), I'm more than a little knackered. When she was a baby, everyone lied to told me that she'd settle down after X amount of months and sleep through.

She didn't.

Her last boyfriend actually found her trying to climb out of his bedroom windows in the early hours of the morning... and she has no real recollection of this.

So it's worrying, and I'd like to say that it ends, but it might not.

My point is, that the OP is right, and it's not a shameful secret. It's a part of how individual our children are and how best to understand/work with that (whilst craving a full night's sleep!!!). My friends' children are mostly younger than my DD - and they pooh-paahed the idea that their children would have sleep issues during those early years (when I was struggling and feeling entirely at fault/responsible/to blame/alone). Two sleepwalk, like my DD (with one getting out of the house one time), and one sits bolt upright in bed and has conversations with empty air (which freaks his parents out, somewhat!). They turned to me, listened to my advice, no longer get upset about it.

However, I still feel alone/at fault for my DD's sleep issues. Stigmatised, maybe. But she is as she is. It's not abnormal. It's primal.

Apparentlyl

I read something, somewhere, that says that even as adults we wake through out the night as a means of making sure we're safe. It's a primal thing, apprarently, and we're probably not aware we're doing so, but... surely babies, the most primal of beings, do this more often?!

trifle I find the burying my head in the sand method works well

There are plenty of baby books that give you the impression that if you manage your baby properly, then it will sleep through the night. And people who say all you need to do is...........blah blah blah, and your baby really should be sleeping through by..........have you tried blah blah blah............ and when you have not slept more than a couple of hours at a go for months on end (or even years) you just get the rage

My first one did not sleep. He did not sleep through at 6 months and woke every night for several hours at 14 months. In fact, he was about 4 1/2 when he started 'sleeping through' (until 4.30am when he got up to watch the milkman - those were the days )

I thought I was just incompetent - I had my mother telling me what to do for years and people telling me I wasn't assertive enough etc for ever, so what did I know?

Then I had twins. They woke me less in the night than DS between the two of them. In fact, one was trying to go through the night when I had her overnight in SCBU - so at minus 3weeks if you go by due date . Still, we crept around at night with only a plug in nightlight just to make sure and one relative used to laugh at us (until she got a non-sleeper).

Sleep deprivation is torture. Things used to drop out of my hands. Years later, I cannot stand to be woken up in the night and it takes me hours to get over it if I am.

It is just the baby, but I can well believe people say theirs sleeps through to avoid That Conversation.

I would just think that articles that say it is ok for babies to wake are just to reassure sleep deprived zombie mothers that they are doing ok, and just enjoy your sleep, whilst you have it.

My DD slept through from before she was full-term. I kept pretty quiet about it.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

I don't think Mrs Jeff was lying, she was fucking knackered and asking if I had any ideas to help. Maybe Jeff slept through it all and genuinely no idea, I doubt that though.

but I can well believe people say theirs sleeps through to avoid That Conversation.

I know several people who've happily admitted that they lied about their baby sleeping through, and this was always the reason. I haven't done it myself but I can really understand the temptation. If it's lie or go down in history as "that woman who headbutted someone at baby group then ran out of the room screaming", well...

y'know, if someone confides in me that their husband is being a bit of a dick & their marriage is rocky, I don't consider that the right time to inform them my DH is great and we are rock solid. Funnily enough, this doesn't make me feel shamed or silenced about my great marriage. Because, y'know, I have a bit of empathy and consideration and my head isn't full of me, me, me. Try it, OP

My baby goes without feeding for a good eight hours at night but doesn't stay asleep hence I get no sleep 😣.

The thing that annoys me is the phrase "is your baby good" to ask if they are sleeping through

Fuck that shit. My DS has had at most a handful of 'good' nights - as in he slept well - in the last three and a bit weeks and I'm dying for some good quality sleep. In fact he's falling asleep now so I'm gonna put us both to bed before I've to get DD from school.

I've noticed lately though that people are big into pitting people against other people. It's not enough to breast feed, you have to also put down people who bottle feed. You have three sons? Sure boys are best, who'd want a daughter or daughters anyway?

Recently I read a post about how mothers who've had a c section are actually braver than women who have gone a different route. In response to a lot of 'c section shaming' that's been going on lately. I think it's disgusting to somehow think less of women who've had a caesarian but also you can be proud of that without tearing anyone else down.

Sorry, I'm rambling with tiredness

TahitiPete, I think you've hit the nail on the head. It is just pitting people against other people. Especially in regards to breast versus bottle or 'natural' birth versus any kind of medication or operation.

It's a shame that some people don't realise that just because they are right doesn't mean that everyone else is wrong.

Yes Chewy that's what I was attempting to say, I'm glad it came across coherently enough. (DS didn't sleep which is why I'm still up)

What do people deem as sleeping through the night though? One woman said to me that hers sleeps through the night (many years ago,) and it turned out her baby slept from 11.30pm til 5.am. That's not sleeping through the night. That's 5.5 hours.

As some have said on this thread, when you have a baby that ISN'T sttn at 8 weeks old, and is still waking every 2-3 hours at 6 months old, the last thing you want to hear is someone carping on about how theirs sleeps through at 8 weeks.

Another point to mention is that I have met a few women who say their babies sttn at 8-10 weeks, and they do, (like 9pm til 6am.) Then at 5-6 months old, they suddenly start waking every 2 hours. So don't assume just because your baby is sttn at 8 weeks, that he/she always will. They could start waking every 1.5 to 2 hours at 6 months old or a year old. And that could last a year! Or 2. Or longer.

But yeah, people don't like to believe things if it doesn't suit them to believe it. They are usually either jealous, or so narrow minded that they can't believe anyone else has a different experience to them. So they call you a liar. It makes them feel better.

When I've been obliged to admit that my baby sleeps through the night, it's normally followed up with the same points that littlefrog makes. I suppose it does make it seem like carping when I'm pressed to give more and more information, none of which is to the liking of the people who ask!