AIBU to think that flexible, family-friendly jobs do not exist.

[MothersRuinart]

A job where you don't get penalised for having to stay home with a sick child, either by having to use annual leave or take unpaid leave. A job where you can leave earlier or start later at a short notice and be able to work up the lost hours another time. A job that would allow you to work from home regularly and/or often and/or at short notice. A company or a work environment that doesn't resent you for having to miss workdays due to childcare issues. Where you're not overlooked for a promotion because you're a parent.

I've never worked for a company like that, neither have any of my friends as far as I know. Tbf, most problems would be solved if more companies allowed their staff to work from home more often or were more flexible with their hours.

I understand that there are jobs where flexibility is not an option but I think most jobs could be much more flexible than they are now.

[welovepancakes]

A common theme on this thread is that people who have the benefit of flexible working often pay a price in terms of lower salary. I think this does rather prove the OP's point that if you want a family friendly role, you often pay a heavy price for that

[bigbuttons]

I work in a school, that although not flexible works to some extent. previous head would turn a blind eyes to 10 mins here or there if you needed to go to the fry's etc. I consequently gave countless hours of good will overtime.
New head this year . I asked to leave 10 mins early to go on a course which was free and would benefit the school. She docked my pay.
There will be no more good will from me.

[RueDeDay]

Civil service job here too... I'm a lone parent and have been able to get annualised hours plus flexible work-from-home days when DD is sick. Partly because I have an awesome boss who went through a terrible divorce so knew what it was like, I think. I have no family support, and DD's father had her for one working day during the last year of school holidays so without the flexibility I would have had to resign.

[RueDeDay]

But yes I earn less than half of what I used to in the private sector, and have a far less enjoyable job in terms of role/responsibilities.

[Ilovewillow]

We run a small financial services company and offer pretty much all of this although home working is difficult for us for anything other than emergencies. I would say though as a small employer the expense can be a challenge and it's by no means the most cost effective route. Whilst most employees both past and present have really appreciated it we have had those who are very make take and no give. It has to be flexible from both sides and benefit both sides but good employers are out there.

[BeyondThePage]

I work part time in a pharmacy shop - it is small, there are 3 of us sharing the counter assistant job - only 1 on at a time each of us doing 12/16 hours. If I ring in sick one of the others gets called to come in to cover. They need someone in the role from 9am to 6pm - that is how a shop works.

So you feel deep guilt if you can't make it in for any reason.

[Cern]

I have a job exactly like this - but what you don't mention in your op is what YOU put in, in return. I really dislike this sense of entitlement, being a parent shouldn't mean that you have to work less hard, or have less out puts, but it is a good reason for flexibility. This week I have worked one evening till 8, spent one night in hospital with a poorly child but gone straight from there for an 8.30 meeting, leaving shortly after to return to the hospital and then to sleep. In so far as is possible I am at work when I am needed. Also as others have said when I am at work, I work, head down, no time wasting, high out puts.

[frenchknitting]

I work for a large IT company, and find them to be pretty flexible. Though I think a lot of it is down to good local management.

In return, I do put extra hours in when needed.

What helps is that DH works for a similar IT company. So for DC sick days, I can often work 5am - lunch, and he'll work lunch - evening from home to cover the day between us.

There was no problem with either of us dropping to 4 days, changing start/end times and agreeing WFH days when DC arrived. But we do both try to be as flexible as possible in return.

[treaclesoda]

I think it's a frustrating issue for women. Society expects us to work, not be sahm (and most women want to work) and being a sahm is viewed by many (incorrectly) as a lazy option.

But then when we do work, emergency childcare is an issue for most people, and people quite rightly say 'well, your childcare isn't your employers responsibility, it's your own responsibility'. Which is true. But doesn't change the fact that a sick child needs looked after and you can't use paid childcare for a sick child anyway.

[fueledbybacon]

I work for a very large IT company and have everything on that wishlist. I get a high 5 figure salary also.

I manage a team of 9 and I run a results orientated team. No 9-5 , I don't care where you are or when you are just as long as the work is done.

In exchange for the company flexibility I'm often on conference calls with west coast America or Australia at 10pm and I travel frequently. It all evens out in the end. Because we're results orientated I get my work done in about 4 hours a day most days so I can study/ mumsnet etc.

[Goondoit]

My job pretty much hits all the points in the op. I have had to rush off due to sick dd/not go in due to childcare issues/go in a bit late leave a bit early. When my dd was in hospital recently my manager didn't even make me use a sick/annual leave/unpaid leave day it's as if it never happened.
I work 24h over 3 days and get paid well pro rata
I suppose the snag is that I still do the same amount of work and carry the same caseload as full timers and am expected to work to the same time scales so I'm working at double speed when I'm at work and never rest but it's worth it for the perks and the time at home.
My employer is a massive financial services organisation and well known

[ScrapThatThen]

I cry happy tears when I think how my managers have enabled me to maintain my career while also being around and available for the dc. It is a two way street though, you have to be an asset at work and flexible to their needs - for instance staying on for important meetings or changing your days (calling in favours from grandparents and friends to do this). I was allowed to work annualised hours in one job (more in term time, less in holidays, or longer but fewer days in holidays); in two jobs I have worked 30 hours over 5 days so I can do school runs. I have not often needed to be off with ill children, but always shared this with DH (and he worked from home whenever possible) on a 'who has the most pressing schedule' basis, and I always offered to take leave/unpaid leave, but never had to. One of my past managers I really admire massively supported a colleague with frequent absence for herself and kids - and thereby kept her as an asset and working productively, managing her health and motivated to work extra hours when she could to catch up. NHS.

[FindoGask]

My job is like this. It's clerical so not that well paid, but I work part time, fully flexible hours, and have five days in a rolling 6-months calendar period that I can take off for child-related caring duties.

I don't know why you would think such jobs don't exist just because you don't personally know anyone who does one!

[BabyHamster]

treacle I think it's only a frustrating issue for women where there is an expectation that an ill child is to be collected by its mother.

Surely this should be an issue for parents, not women?

[FloweringDeranger]

Interesting thread. treaclesoda, it's this idea in British culture that children and their needs can just be brushed aside and will be dealt with by someone else. It's a relic from the days when public life was male life and women were excluded. Women have moved into public life but now we all have the idea that children are just a lifestyle choice, not a necessity for the continuation of life.

Someone has to take care of the kids, and we women are no longer prepared to accept the male assumption of superior status and rights when they are enabled to roam free while the women get landed with all the responsibility. Something has to change. There is a connection to issues of economic inequality as well - who is all this money being made for anyway?

Someone upthread commented that 'perks' for parents are unfair on childless workers. Having the responsibility of dealing with sick children is not really a perk, but the young and childless will see it so particularly while they are being made to struggle so as they are at the moment - more and more work for less and less.

Personally I think the solution is for part-time work to be the norm. It makes far more sense given the pressures in work now too. We'd need the same current or higher rates of pay for less work. I'm convinced it's doable if we didn't have such a culture of praising greed and winner-takes-it-all and brought back proper redistribution. It did once before, after all. Alternatively sahp is going to have to become normal, with decent status and some form of remuneration attached - perhaps basic income.

[Vanillaradio]

My job is a bit like that. Yes I have to use annual leave if ds is sick but no one gives me any grief about it I have flexi time so can leave early or come in late and make up hours if necessary. I came back part time 3 days a week after maternity leave and actually have a reduced caseload. I can work from home at least 1 day a week and at short notice if necessary (I did yesterday as 0 trains and traffic gridlock). I have no desire for promotion at the moment but my immediate (female) boss has a 4 year old and a 6 year old and dh''s (female) boss (different team same organisation) has a 5 year old and 8 year old .
Yes it is public sector. I could earn more elsewhere but despite some other frustrations that go with public sector work the above benefits suit me enough not to look around.

[Ellypoo]

My company is like that really, for me anyway and I try to afford my team the same flexibility although they can't wfh due to the nature of their jobs - they can work longer days to have days off for holidays, make up hours on other days etc - all the senior management are parents so understand and as long as business needs are met, we try to be as flexible as possible because it works both ways and builds loyalty.

[FloweringDeranger]

Findo, many of us who don't know anyone with flexible working don't because they're rare. Much rarer now than they used to be too. Many that exist are still occupied by older women whose kids have long since fled the nest, much the same issues as with housing. All employers are locking down on workers and demanding more and more. Obviously a thread like this on the internet will find those who are lucky enough to have them.

Other European countries are experimenting with different models, trying to progress while Britain falls ever backwards socially. As they continue British (and American) excuses will get wilder and wilder. No wonder there is so much anger and division in Britain.

[Toomanywheeliebinsagain]

There is also another thread running on this. With people earning more than 50k a year and working flexibly. That said, most of them, including me, do considerably more than contracted hours

[JemimaMuddledUp]

My employer is family friendly. When my DC were younger I worked an 80% contract, over 5 short days term time and 4 full days during holidays. I was allowed to tweak my working pattern when my family circumstances changed. As my DC got older I have been able to increase my hours to 100%. If my DC are ill I can work from home and not lose annual leave. We have flexi so I can start late if I need to go into school to speak to a teacher, or finish early if I need to pick up. I have even taken long lunches to ferry the school netball team to tournaments!

I have also not been penalised for having family commitments - I have had three promotions whilst working flexibly around the DC.

It is give and take though - this week was half term and I went into work for a meeting on my day off, leaving DD at my desk reading a book. But they know I'll go the extra mile when necessary, so they are happy to be extra flexible at times too.

[kittytom]

I have a job like this but I switched from private to public sector (local government) and took a pay cut. I also put in a few years of doing the hours they wanted before I gradually negotiated hours to suit me!

[TooStressyForMyOwnGood]

I also think it depends on your sector / role. As I said, I had a flexible job and still do to some extent. However, I know my area and know that true flexibility there is pretty rare. It is available in other roles but to get that I would have to throw years of training and experience down the drain. I'm pretty close to doing that because I am sick of the juggling act. So the roles exist yes, but that doesn't change the fact that they are extremely rare in some areas.

It also depends what you want / need. In an ideal world I want to work set days 10 - 3:30ish with flexibility to take time off and do the occasional longer day when it suits me. I also don't want to work in my own time and I want paid study leave. That will never happen (and my colleagues and employers would hate me) so I will have to freelance / do supply in order to get that.

The trade off is that I will lose career progression and annual leave. I think to an extent though I lost career progression when I went part time.

[BabyHamster]

*flowering" yes, because there is no anger and division in the rest of Europe right now

[PRBunny]

Another civil servant here. I'm allowed to work flexibly. But I have to say I have been in my department eight years in varying roles and there has been a massive cultural shift for the better since I started. Ultimately it comes down to the role that you're employed to do and crucially the attitudes of those in senior grades.

I would agree with Micycle and am wondering if we may have crossed paths IRL.

[GreenPetal94]

NHS in Scotland offer 4 extra weeks of paid leave per child to use anytime til they are 18. Love it, but I do feel that one is probably dead annoying for the childless and it certainly is great for those with large families.

My job as senior manager in NHS, office based role, has most of the flexiblities listed, I work 70% but get paid well.