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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to ask if all LGBTs approve of Pride festivals?

163 replies

MrsMuddlePluck · 22/02/2017 14:00

Just to be clear - I will defend any LGBT to protect and preserve their rights. In the past I have stepped in to stop a customer patting my employee's cheek when he was intimidating him for no other reason than his being gay.

Now that we have equal rights and as a society we are more accepting of people whose lifestyle differs from ours, can we stop with the 'pride' marches and the flying of rainbow flags to show our solidarity? I know we still have some way to go but photos from Pride festivals 'celebrating' alternative lifestyles make me feel uncomfortable. Surely you don't need to dress up in sequins or bondage gear and flaunt it in the street, to make you a better LGBT? How do LGBTs really feel about this?

Our Council has just agreed to fund a pride festival, having withdrawn funding for our annual community festival. Can't we celebrate together instead of excluding straights from one, or LGBTs from the other?

OP posts:
Strongerandleaner · 23/02/2017 09:12

I think its very sad that gay couplesfeel, or are made to feel that they cannot behave as straight couples (eg, kissing, hugging, bum squidging in public) so clearly there is a real absence of equality.
The thing is, everyone is different and when I see Pride, whilst lots of it looks relaxed and flamboyant and free (good imo) it seems quite dominated (no pun intended) by men and bondage etc. Which I think, if i examine my feelings on it, makes me uncomfortable.
Obviously people have no obligation to maintain my comfort zone but I suppose if I were a lesbian I would still feel uncomfortable with that side of it and would not feel "represented" by it or "safe" as part of it.
But then I realise I dont actually know what Im talking about. It's just that, as a bit of a rad fem I often feel the rights and views of gay women seem drowned out by the G and T agenda.
Anyway, I'm out before I stick my big foot in any more. Apologies for any offence or clumsiness.

conserveisposhforjam · 23/02/2017 09:25

conserveisposhforjam: did you read my OP?

Oh gosh yes. That's how I knew you were a friend of the gay and not some common or garden homophobe. Smile

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 23/02/2017 09:31

Stonewall (who certainly don't seem to give a fuck about lesbians nowadays unless it's to call us transphobic for not being into dick) are now defining trans as "any person whose gender identity and / or gender expression does not conform to conventional ideas of male or female gender, or the sex they were assigned at birth. This includes all binary and non-binary gender identities and those who have an absence of gender identity."

So according to the UK's best-known trans campaigning organisation, anyone who doesn't fit male / female stererotypes counts as trans. Anyone who's same-sex attracted and either uninterested in having kids and wearing pretty dresses (women) or dislikes sports and DIY (men) counts as trans. Anyone who thinks the concept of gender identity is a load of misogynistic bollocks counts as trans. I'm a lesbian geek with no interest in having kids who has a sex but not a "gender identity". Must be trans.

And the transsexual people with actual body dysphoria? Lost in the crowd somewhere.

SilentlyScreamingAgain · 23/02/2017 09:43

Stonewall (who certainly don't seem to give a fuck about lesbians nowadays unless it's to call us transphobic for not being into dick)...

I missed that press release and I can't find it on google, can you link to it?

Godstopper · 23/02/2017 09:48

Is that for real Empress? It's way out of hand: gender doesn't have anything to do with my being a woman as I see it - I do logic for my day job, would rather not wear dresses, like building things, and have a number of other so-called 'male' interests. But I'm pretty sure I don't want to become a man!

I never thought that, after coming out in the 90's, I'd now feel marginalised by my own so-called 'community.'

DioneTheDiabolist · 23/02/2017 09:53

...but photos from Pride festivals 'celebrating' alternative lifestyles make me feel uncomfortable.

Then don't look at them.

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 23/02/2017 10:01

It's in the draft version of Stonewall's Vision for Change document, written by their Trans Advisory Group.

heron98 · 23/02/2017 10:02

Completely disagree with Tiggy.

I am disabled, and diabetic. These are adjectives to describe people who have a disability or diabetes. It doesn't mean I am not a person.

Very oversensitive and nit picky.

amispartacus · 23/02/2017 10:05

heron98

Would you say 'Look at the blacks over there?"

Or look at the black people?

LadyPW · 23/02/2017 10:53

Can we not make this about which label to use. Different people like to be called different things. Let's focus on the issue at hand in this particular thread - homophobia.

10000spoons · 23/02/2017 11:25

MrsMuddlePluck suspect you are on a wind up tbh. But for your future reference, yes, you do flaunt it, without realising. It's called 'heteronormativity'. You can google it. As a pp said, when you are a part of a hegemonic group, you don't realise it because it's the 'norm' (for want of a better word). It speaks volumes that you seem to assume 'flaunting it' is to do with sexual behaviour. Utterly homophobic views like yours make me feel so proud to know my children are being raised to be loving and accepting towards people. They are making this world a better place. Smile

SiestaFiesta · 23/02/2017 11:27

Saw this picture on facebook today as we are coming up to an election. This is what members of our main political party, the DUP, have said in the past.

So I say yes 100% we need Pride. We need to stand together and make our voices heard as a community, to show that we are not ashamed and we will keep fighting for our rights.

to ask if all LGBTs approve of Pride festivals?
HughJarss · 23/02/2017 11:40

FFS, OP. I'm fully expecting your next post to contain the words "All Lives Matter".

Original poster
MrsMuddlePluck · 25/02/2017 10:42

conserveisposhforjam: I won't lie & say I have gay friends just to please you. I'm stating a fact. Ditto having employed a gay man; currently working with gay colleagues; having worked alongside a transitioning MtF & helping her do her makeup properly (she asked me).

Does that make you feel better or am I still not entitled to an opinion?

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsMuddlePluck · 25/02/2017 10:44

Strongerandleaner: That's what I meant! More eloquently expressed. Thank you.

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsMuddlePluck · 25/02/2017 10:54

DioneTheDiabolist: the point is that if bondage/s&m is part of the norm at Pride, then I don't want it in a public community festival. I love a party but not the flaunting of bondage & sexual fetishes that accompanies it. I don't flaunt my bedroom fetishes in public & nor should anyone else.

OP posts:
Sallystyle · 25/02/2017 11:02

I will be going to the next Pride festival with my teenage (gay) son and I'm quite looking forward to it.

He has one gay relative who he rarely sees and no gay friends so I think it would be good for him to have a chance to meet others and celebrate with them.

So far, thank god, he hasn't experienced any homophobia but I have noticed that there are a few relatives he hasn't spoken about it to because he thinks they won't like it. He lacks confidence and self-esteem, he is not comfortable in his own skin yet and I'm hoping taking him to Pride where he can be around people who are gay will help him in some way.

LakieLady · 25/02/2017 11:24

I long for the day when people aren't judged by their sex or by their sexuality.

Until that day comes, Pride has its place.

SiestaFiesta · 25/02/2017 11:27

Disclaimer I am a bad gay person who doesn't know much about the history of it but I believe amongst others the leather scene (am I using the right word?) was involved in the Stonewall riots where pride came from. This has probably evolved to include bdsm.

LakieLady · 25/02/2017 11:27

if bondage/s&m is part of the norm at Pride, then I don't want it in a public community festival

If celebrating diversity in all its forms isn't for you, then best you don't go to Pride events. After all, no-one is forced to attend. I don't go because I don't like crowds.

Rugbyplayersarehot · 25/02/2017 11:33

I think the world is so scary now that marching and celebrating anything that promotes peace, equality and diversity is great.

Rugbyplayersarehot · 25/02/2017 11:33

I think the world is so scary now that marching and celebrating anything that promotes peace, equality and diversity is great.

VestalVirgin · 25/02/2017 12:04

I don't think that there's no homophobia anymore.

But I am not so sure that walking around in bondage/s&m wear is going to combat homophobia.
Rather the opposite, probably, if we are talking of a genuine fear of homosexual people rather than just, you know, hate.

What I think is going to combat homophobia is feminism. The end of sexism. Fundamental societal change.

I do not want to live in a world where homophobic transactivists coerce lesbians into having sex with the bepenised (previously known as males).

Just "celebrating diversity" isn't going to achieve fundamental change.

amispartacus · 25/02/2017 12:11

I think the world is so scary now that marching and celebrating anything that promotes peace, equality and diversity is great

This. There are people who are different. There is still a lot of hate around for people who are different - and the rise of Trump is part of that. The more people just see that people who are different are - for the most part - just like everyone else and want to get on with their lives and have the rights and societally accepted privileges that most people take for granted, the better.