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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not know what to think about Le Pen refusing to wear a headscarf

119 replies

Neverthelessshepersisted · 21/02/2017 18:12

Half of me is thinking "she's the national front, she's pretty nasty."
The other half if thinking she's got a point

She was due to meet the Grand Mufti of Lebanon but the meeting didn't happen because of the headscarf.

So confused.....

OP posts:
BillSykesDog · 22/02/2017 11:17

It was overturned in the courts. But the Burkini ban is the other side of the same coin. How about we just agree that women can wear what they damn well like without being forced to cover up or uncover?

I don't really give a shit whether someone is wearing a burka or a bikini as long as it's their choice.

BarbarianMum · 22/02/2017 11:40

Tbh I am ok with their being societally imposed limits for both sexes. I don't want to deal with people in a mask/burka/full face hood or (other extreme) nothing but a g string and a smile.

Topseyt · 22/02/2017 13:01

I would agree that Le Pen almost certainly proceeded to the meeting as a media stunt, and I don't like her.

However, I personally would not want to wear a headscarf. I doubt I would attend meetings or any occasion which insisted on it, so I do (begrudingly, I have to say) accept her point on this one.

I will make the effort to dress respectfully when I am visiting other cultures, but I will not be made to hide just because I am a woman.

MiaowTheCat · 22/02/2017 13:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

catgirl1976 · 22/02/2017 13:26

Yup she's right on this one (that's so hard to say)

If I wanted to visit a place of worship or holy site which required me to cover up I would do it because I wanted to visit and those were the conditions and that would be respectful. I would be choosing to visit knowing the conditions and would be free not to visit if I didn't want to abide by those.

But I wouldn't cover up to have a business / political meeting with someone. In pretty much every situation except the one above, I choose what I wear.

PointxTaken · 22/02/2017 14:48

How about we just agree that women can wear what they damn well like without being forced to cover up or uncover?
I don't really give a shit whether someone is wearing a burka or a bikini as long as it's their choice.

as long as it respects the current laws applicable to everybody in the country you are in.
In my bank, in my office, visitors are not allowed to come in unless their face is shown, so couriers have to remove their helmet for example. There's even a similar sign at my GP surgery. You have to show your face at customs too, haven't you?

There is a social and cultural context to everything, it's not right to make exceptions for some and not for others.

BillSykesDog · 22/02/2017 14:53

Yes, but limitations which apply to gb

BillSykesDog · 22/02/2017 14:53

Yes, but limitations which apply to gb

Werkzallhourz · 22/02/2017 16:05

why is it not acceptable for Lebanon to ask a non muslim woman to cover her head with a scarf yet it is ok for France to ban a muslim woman from wearing a niqab?

Lebanon is not asking her to wear a headscarf. The headscarf is in no way obligatory in Lebanon and most women do not wear one.

Instead, the grand mufti (who is only one of a number of religious leaders in Lebanon and by no means the most geopolitically influential) is requesting Le Pen cover her hair to meet him. This is the equivalent of, say, the Archbishop of Canterbury insisting that Le Pen refrain from wearing trousers at a meeting with him.

To be honest, I think this situation will end up damaging the mufti. The Lebanese are utter sick of religiously-inspired grandstanding and sectarianism ripping their country apart. The mufti will be seen as indicative of the problem Lebanon faces in trying to go forward in the 21st century surrounding by other countries riddled with conflict.

Missswatch · 22/02/2017 16:43

Seems like Le Pen defied the patriarchy better than most western feminists

VestalVirgin · 22/02/2017 16:59

I think it's similar to whether you'd curtsy if you met the Queen.

No. The Queen doesn't think you are subhuman.

I would curtsy if I met the Queen to show respect for the good job she did representing her country. I am pretty sure the Queen doesn't actually think herself inherently better than anyone else.

I would not put on a headscarf to meet with someone who thinks I am a subhuman fucktoilet, thus implying that I agree that I am subhuman and need to cover my sinful hair.

deblet · 22/02/2017 17:03

What does a bald woman do in these countries? Genuine question is it the hair that is offensive or a woman's head?

VestalVirgin · 22/02/2017 17:06

What does a bald woman do in these countries? Genuine question is it the hair that is offensive or a woman's head?

Same as a woman who had a mastectomy here? I suppose she would still be expected to cover up. If not because of the hair then because the lack of it is "unfeminine"

Though I think the religious authorities haven't really made their mind up as to whether it is the hair or the head - they condemn hair, but considering that some of those garments do not even show the face, the head is probably offensive, too.

deblet · 22/02/2017 17:07

Ok thanks. VestalVirgin

HattiesBackpack · 22/02/2017 17:31

This is such a conflicting topic! On the one hand I think that if women choose to cover their hair/face then they should be able to do so - but then I also think that the expectation to cover oneself is inherantly sexist.
Anecdotally- DH spent some time in Iraq last year, none of the women had covered hair.

MissingTheVillage · 22/02/2017 18:45

thebaker What muddies the waters for me, though, is that whilst nobody should dictate to others how they should or shouldn't dress, this is exactly what France has done by banning the headscarves. So, nobody should be forced to wear clothes because of someone else's religious choices, but they CAN force people NOT to wear certain clothes? Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

Yes, it is. Although I think face coverings are a bit different and cross a line. But banning headscarves/burkinis etc is NOT ok, imo.

However there is a key difference. France (presumably*) applies these clothing rules to everyone, not just women. I'd be quite happy to cover my head when visiting somewhere, if that was the general rule/custom in the country for everyone. The issue is that only women are required to do this. That's the point.

MissingTheVillage · 22/02/2017 18:47

Oops, someone managed to miss several pages there... Blush

VestalVirgin · 23/02/2017 10:09

I'd be quite happy to cover my head when visiting somewhere, if that was the general rule/custom in the country for everyone. The issue is that only women are required to do this. That's the point.

Yes, exactly.

Charlieismydarlin · 23/02/2017 11:27

Just the thought of a woman having to cover to protect so called modesty makes my blood boil

I pass a family most days and the woman is completely covered and walks 20 paces behind her husband.

It's hard to respect any kind of thinking that places women in some kind of sub-human position.

I feel for women in the Middle East forced to cover and I really think women in the west should support them by not doing so.

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