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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to not know what to think about Le Pen refusing to wear a headscarf

119 replies

Neverthelessshepersisted · 21/02/2017 18:12

Half of me is thinking "she's the national front, she's pretty nasty."
The other half if thinking she's got a point

She was due to meet the Grand Mufti of Lebanon but the meeting didn't happen because of the headscarf.

So confused.....

OP posts:

Original poster

Neverthelessshepersisted · 21/02/2017 21:44

Beruit now?

Sorry, was in such a rush to go and live there....

OP posts:

BusyBeez99 · 21/02/2017 21:46

I think it is brilliant she refused

Original poster

Neverthelessshepersisted · 21/02/2017 21:47

The trouble with "calm down" is that yes it is totally a woman-silencer but many of us are brought up to think of it as normal inoffensive language.

So people say it sort of unwittingly...

OP posts:

user1477282676 · 21/02/2017 21:50

OP Yes, exactly. But mention this and you'll probably be called hysterical.

It's especially galling when you haven't even added any !!! to your post but rather just given your opinion.

Then some idiot comes along and says "Calm down dear" or some such shite.

PointxTaken · 21/02/2017 21:52

The trouble with "calm down" is that yes it is totally a woman-silencer
?!? if you say so. We just don't have the same experience at all! Weird.

Original poster

Neverthelessshepersisted · 21/02/2017 21:54

Yes, but "some idiot" is provocative too....

I hear you. This kind of misogyny is part of the language and it is hard to diagnose in your own speech because it's in the air we breathe....

Anyway, I think a near-consensus that the nasty French person was, on this occasion, right, even if there was an element of stunt to it.

OP posts:

Original poster

Neverthelessshepersisted · 21/02/2017 21:56

Point,

Just make a point of listening out for it. You may change your mind.

OP posts:

hollyisalovelyname · 21/02/2017 22:00

I wouldn't curtsy to the Queen.
Or kneel for the Pope.
At least, I think I wouldn't.
But I might get star struck.

Aderyn2016 · 21/02/2017 22:17

Fed up of men oppressing women in the name of religion/culture and women being told to suck it up. Fuck that. No one's opinion/culture/religion/whatever other piss poor excuse to oppress women is used, outranks my right to freedom.

If we want to stop the far right, then we have to stop indulging acts which are anti feminist, and which oppose our rights and freedoms. Our governments have to declare our own laws and beliefs are important, defend them and make clear that religious belief doesn't outrank them.

mimishimmi · 21/02/2017 22:24

I don't think she should be forced to wear anything... just as I believe she and her followers should not coerce others into wearing they find appropriate.

MrsTerryPratchett · 21/02/2017 22:41

I wonder if she would follow protocol if meeting the Pope.

And let's not pretend we don't all follow dress codes that adhere to weird cultural norms. Blokes wandering around Tescos with no shirt on? Try that as a woman...

Chloe84 · 21/02/2017 22:49

It's a question of who you believe.

The Grand Mufti's office say they informed her that she would need to wear a headscarf for the meeting.

Le Pen says she told them she would not be wearing a headscarf but turned up anyway and then walked out when they gave her the scarf.

Personally, I think she staged the stunt for publicity purposes.

This isn't Le Pen making a feminist statement, she's playing up to her far-right base.

Applebite · 21/02/2017 22:54

The whole headscarf/covering up issue makes me feel divided.

On the one hand, you should respect someone else's culture and beliefs.

On the other hand, why the fuck should women be made to cover up just because men can't handle looking at them (because all the women they see are covered up)?

Argh, it makes my head shout at itself. I guess my overall view is that you should respect someone else's culture and beliefs unless they are oppressive and sexist.

BarbarianMum · 21/02/2017 23:00

I'd wear a headscarf if I visited a mosque - to me that's respecting someone's religious beliefs. Someone expecting me to wear a headscarf before they'll talk to me - well where does it end with people refusing to meet/talk to/deal with women at all

TheFullMrexit · 21/02/2017 23:01

Quite apple. I mean would it have been a debate to go to South Africa under apartheid and have black colleague follow rules??? Because respecting culture trumps humanity?! Sorry Diane you need to go through different door and sit at the back in your special area

thebakerwithboobs · 21/02/2017 23:02

nobody should be forced to wear certain clothes because of someone else's religious choice

Exactly this. What muddies the waters for me, though, is that whilst nobody should dictate to others how they should or shouldn't dress, this is exactly what France has done by banning the headscarves. So, nobody should be forced to wear clothes because of someone else's religious choices, but they CAN force people NOT to wear certain clothes? Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

Completely agree though that this is a victory for both sides. What a sad endictment of modern politics.

TheFullMrexit · 21/02/2017 23:02

The religious belief that men can't be trusted and women's hair is sinful and must not be seen. Sorry I couldn't do it.

thebakerwithboobs · 21/02/2017 23:02

*indictment!

Chloe84 · 21/02/2017 23:09

Userblahblah

She or anyone can refuse to wear a scarf on their head ALL they like. Their head, their rules.

You have either deliberately or genuinely misunderstood Bonsai.

Then you had a tantrum and tried to shut down debate by saying Bonsai is trying to oppress you. It's extremely childish behaviour.

AuntJane · 21/02/2017 23:38

Something crossed my mind when I read this story earlier this evening.

When does "being sensitive to local custom" (e.g. covering your hair) become "cultural appropriation"?

CatBean · 21/02/2017 23:49

I'm with Chloe on this. Its a stunt.

Applebite · 21/02/2017 23:56

Regardless of Le Pen, imagine a scenario when a male world leader was forced to dress in a certain way to meet religious/cultural beliefs.... impossible!

Chloe84 · 22/02/2017 00:11

Applebite

She wasn't forced though, was she? It was a condition of the meeting.

Here's Prince Charles, taking part in a cultural event, at his host's request.

to not know what to think about Le Pen refusing to wear a headscarf

OfaFrenchmind2 · 22/02/2017 00:40

But Prince Charles was not asked to cover up to enforce somebody's conception of modesty. He was honored in participating in a validating custom of a foreign culture. It is totally different.

BonsaiTree · 22/02/2017 00:46

User, are you ok? Does it upset you to see such a level of mistrust towards le pen? Or is it just those muslim women in scarves who claim its their choice to wear it, that bother you?
if it is safe for me to voice my opinion, without the accusation that some man has put me up to this......

It didnt take le pen's party long to hail this as some freedom fight

"A magnificent message of liberty and emancipation sent to the women of France and of the world."

Never mind that she gets to choose whether she wears the scarf in Lebanon or not, but a woman in france is not allowed to choose to wear the veil. Magnificent message indeed!

Good media show, great stunt, pulled like a true, seasoned politician.

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